NASA vows $8.8 bn space telescope on track for 2018

December 6, 2011 by Kerry Sheridan
This undated NASA handout image shows a full scale James webb Space Telescope

Enlarge

This undated NASA handout image shows a full scale James webb Space Telescope. After a series of delays and billions spent over budget, the potent James Webb Space Telescope is on track to launch in 2018 at a total project cost of $8.8 billion, NASA vowed on Tuesday.

After a series of delays and billions spent over budget, the potent James Webb Space Telescope is on track to launch in 2018 at a total project cost of $8.8 billion, NASA vowed on Tuesday.

The project, which aims to build the world's most powerful telescope, 100 times more sensitive than the , has been riddled by poor management and cost overruns.

Though a Congressional subcommittee threatened to ax the project altogether earlier this year as lawmakers grappled with how to reduce a more than $15 trillion national deficit, Congress has since agreed to fully fund it at the level requested.

But NASA's new JWST program manager Rick Howard who came on board last year, still faced an acrimonious grilling on Tuesday from lawmakers in the House Committee on Science, Space and Technology.

Committee chair Ralph Hall described the project as "another case study of NASA mismanagement" and said the NASA reshuffle was "the agency's last opportunity to hold this program together."

"We have changed the management, the priority and the approach," Howard told the committee hearing. "We can deliver JWST within costs."

In February, Paul Martin told lawmakers that the telescope had gone way over its initial budget of $3.5 billion and was likely to come in at around $6.5 billion.

NASA has also pushed back its scheduled -- initially set for 2013 -- numerous times. It is now set for October 2018.

Garth Illingworth, an astronomer and professor at University of California, Santa Cruz, was part of an independent comprehensive review panel (ICRP) that reviewed NASA's work on the JWST and issued a report last year.

"I feel that NASA has actually done a very good job on this replan. They have developed a plan that is I would say uniquely conservative for NASA in the level of reserves and the approach that they are taking," Illingworth told lawmakers.

"They realized that they had seriously flawed management before the time of the ICRP and are trying to rectify it, as Rick said," he added.

"I am highly encouraged by what I have seen over the last six to nine months on this program."

Republican lawmaker James Sensenbrenner asked how the US space agency would carry out any repairs on the telescope, recalling how the orbiting Hubble needed numerous service missions by the space shuttle program, which retired this year.

"We don't have the shuttle anymore. What is going to happen if we need to repair the or if we find out some the parts were not properly done?" he asked.

Howard responded that NASA was already in the process of testing and checking the mirrors at operating temperature, and noted that the telescope's path would take it beyond where the world's spacecraft have the capacity to carry humans, anyway.

"We know that we only have one chance to get this right," Howard said.

"It is not going to be in orbit around the Earth, it is going to a distance four times further away than the moon. So we are taking every step we can to mitigate the risks to make sure that we do have a system that can work."

"You've just increased my skepticism given the history, and I have been on this committee longer than anybody else," Sensenbrenner answered.

"I can see another money pit coming up."

(c) 2011 AFP

4.5 /5 (17 votes)  

Filter


Move the slider to adjust rank threshold, so that you can hide some of the comments.


Display comments: newest first

CapitalismPrevails
Dec 06, 2011

Rank: 2.7 / 5 (12)
Money pit indeed. Maybe if NASA was more privatized it would conduct its business more sensibly and economically rather than more expensively and politically. For example, maybe if they spent half of that 8.8 billion dollars on researching more cost effective means of getting into space and traveling in space(Space X)rather than pushing expensive status quo missions for the public optics, than maybe JWST mission and future missions wouldn't cost as much. NASA is just another loaded down bureaucracy which doesn't have the concept of efficiency at the top of it's priorities for the long run.
Callippo
Dec 06, 2011

Rank: 1 / 5 (3)
Did they solve the problem of blinding pixels already? I'd say not...
http://www.newsci...ope.html
JWST is the remnant of rich era before fossil fuel and financial crisis - now it kills the less adventuresome, but more effective projects.
ScienceFreak86
Dec 06, 2011

Rank: 3.7 / 5 (6)
Final date, almost 2019....and it could(should) be operational in 2013, no comment... in 2019 technology will be so advanced, that this telescope won't be so impresive as it could be in 2013.
This is so distant future, that these news don't excite me as they should
flashgordon
Dec 06, 2011

Rank: 2 / 5 (1)
Yes ScienceFreak86; but, well, that's the way these things go. The initial effort is more expensive than the next; but, without going through that initial expensive phase, we might not get to be able to do it more efficiently later.
Nanobanano
Dec 06, 2011

Rank: 3.2 / 5 (5)
initial budget of $3.5 billion and was likely to come in at around $6.5 billion


Only 100% over budget.

How does one accomplish that anyway?

If you paid 100 people an $80,000 salary, then that's only $8 million per year.

If it was literally made out of pure gold and rare earths, the materials would only cost about $40 million.

So what?

Presumably almost the entire cost is in the construction and maintenance of the clean rooms and cryogenics for testing?!?
Vendicar_Decarian
Dec 06, 2011

Rank: 2.3 / 5 (6)
"How does one accomplish that anyway?" - Nano

1,000 people, $80,000 per year = 80,000,000

80,000,000 over 20 years = 1.6 billion

Instrumentation and material costs 1.6 billion

Total 3.2 billion

Corporate profit markup 4.8 billion

Total 8 billion.

Vendicar_Decarian
Dec 06, 2011

Rank: 3.5 / 5 (16)
I agree with CapitalismFails.. James West is a horrible waste of money which on average is personally costing him a whopping $1.05 per year over the life span of the project.

With that kind of cost and his job inserting pizza advertisements under the windshield wipers of random parked cars, the $1.05 per year cost will almost bankrupt him.

NASA should be privatized so that it can turn to profitable ventures like opening a string of NASA stores all over America to sell space food sticks and astro-drinks and leave the design and construction of space telescopes up to the capitalist experts at Walmart and Target, whose space engineering remains unrivaled.

Idiot.

Vendicar_Decarian
Dec 06, 2011

Rank: 3.2 / 5 (13)
"in 2019 technology will be so advanced" - ScienceFreak86

So advanced that you will be driving your hovermobile to your day job on the moon, and taking your girlfriends talking dog to dinner at the dog and dinner diner on planet Caininus 8.

I recommend the Blofarb Foup with Klutons and a side order of Tenticallus Gnard.

sethw
Dec 06, 2011

Rank: not rated yet
Vendicar_Decarian,

In reference to your reply to CapitalismFails, thanks, you said everything I wanted to say, and more.
Walfy
Dec 06, 2011

Rank: 4.6 / 5 (10)
Better to have cost overruns with space exploration than military equipment.
sasss31
Dec 07, 2011

Rank: 4 / 5 (8)
The James Webb telescope is going to be amazing. For those complaining about monetary issues, NASA is already underfunded to the max. IT seems like you don't want to advance our knowledge of the cosmos?
Callippo
Dec 07, 2011

Rank: 1 / 5 (6)
IT seems like you don't want to advance our knowledge of the cosmos?

LOL, cosmologists aren't interested about knowledge of IT about cosmos anyway...;-) The dense aether model would render them useless.
Nanobanano
Dec 07, 2011

Rank: 1.8 / 5 (11)
The James Webb telescope is going to be amazing. For those complaining about monetary issues, NASA is already underfunded to the max. IT seems like you don't want to advance our knowledge of the cosmos?


If anyone actually benefited from anything in space exploration, nobody would complain about the costs.

pretty much my entire life space exploration has amounted to this:

Discovery X is made.

"yawn. That's pretty neat, but so what?"

And about the only thing you got out of it was a wallpaper for somebody's desk top.

No offense, but Hubble didn't help make a better computer, and it didn't advance medicine. Hell, it hasn't even really advanced theoretical physics or particle physics, at least not in any PRACTICAL sense. We haven't had any new materials or technology discoveries based on any new science discovered by Hubble, etc.

Ultimately, all it did was make some pretty false color pictures.
Nerdyguy
Dec 07, 2011

Rank: 2 / 5 (4)
"This undated NASA handout image shows a full scale James webb Space Telescope. "

Hard to tell from the small image, but it appears that they've got the JW sitting outside a retirement community so people could get up and person with it. lmao. Maybe the author meant the caption to say "James Webb "mock up"..."
Nerdyguy
Dec 07, 2011

Rank: 2.6 / 5 (5)
initial budget of $3.5 billion and was likely to come in at around $6.5 billion


Only 100% over budget.

How does one accomplish that anyway?

If you paid 100 people an $80,000 salary, then that's only $8 million per year.

If it was literally made out of pure gold and rare earths, the materials would only cost about $40 million.

So what?

Presumably almost the entire cost is in the construction and maintenance of the clean rooms and cryogenics for testing?!?


What really blows my mind is this crap just goes on and on. Does anyone really think it's not possible to accurately estimate the costs of something along these lines? Sure, there are occasionally unforeseen circumstances. However, this doubling of budgets garbage happens at NASA and other bloated agencies....nearly every time!
Nanobanano
Dec 07, 2011

Rank: 1 / 5 (6)
And by comparison, the biggest revolutions in materials science in modern times appears to be graphene and carbon nanotubes, and that was discovered by accident by a guy playing around with a few cents worth of pencil lead and scotch tape.

Assuming the JW doesn't get destroyed by some rocket failure, or some other catastrophic failure, what do you expect it to find?

A new class of galaxy, or an "older" galaxy allegedly a half billion years farther away?

Maybe something else we haven't thought of?

What difference will it make? Probably none.

It won't help solve the economic crisis, or feed the hugry or clothe the poor, that's for sure.

It would have to make a discoverty directly leading to unifying laws of physics, or discover unobtanium in order to pay for itself in any practical way, which is highly unlikely.

A few more false color pictures to add to our already useless collection, that nobody even has the time or will to look at. That about sums it up.
Nerdyguy
Dec 07, 2011

Rank: 1 / 5 (3)
Random thoughts not by Jack Handy:

1) Did anyone see the Hubble article re: 10,000 scientific papers published? JW represents a similar opportunity to advance basic research. So, despite the political and financial garbage, we need to focus on the potential future value of this mission.

2) To CapitalismPrevails point, it's true that this type of ridiculousness rarely occurs in the private sector. The further away people get from the source of their funding, the easier it is to forget that it's actually someone's real hard-earned dollars you're playing with.

3) Nano - your conclusions seem quite harsh. I'd agree with you actually if we were talking about Kepler, which I've criticized before. But, Hubble has helped advance our scientific understanding of events outside our little bubble like nothing else since Galileo. A good read along these lines...

http://plus.maths...io/index
Imagine
Dec 07, 2011

Rank: 1 / 5 (5)
I expect, like everything else, the government has their hand in the cookie jar on this. Which is why it's taking so long to get this telescope off the ground. Do we really need another expensive telescope to tell us what we already know? To tell us that, there may be habitable planets out there that we just don't have the technology to get to? Or that there are comets out there that pass close to our planet; as they have for billions of years? I'm sure the hubble can see alien craft just as easily, if they are out there. Do we really need to spend $8.8 billion so that the rich folks can have another expensive "toy" to play with?

I'm wondering how many thousands of homeless and, displaced families could better be helped with that $8.8 billion. How many homes could be arranged, how much food could be provided, how many jobs could be created? Right now it's the winter. In areas of the country like the Northwest and East coast, the homeless have it worse than any one. To be continued...
Imagine
Dec 07, 2011

Rank: 1 / 5 (2)
If you are a single homeless person, it's hard enough to meet the basics to stay alive, just one more day. Think about a homeless family with small children. It's easy to sit in your warm homes and say "get a job"; It's not so easy to get one. No matter how much the politicians want to put the message out there that jobs are abundant, the fact remains; there are not enough jobs for every one. This country takes pride in saying it's one of the world leaders. It's a shame that it would rather spend $8.8 billion on another rich mans toy than, feed, clothe and, house it's own people. That it would rather see them freeze and, starve in the streets.

To be continued...
Imagine
Dec 07, 2011

Rank: 1 / 5 (2)
I feel that they have no right to spend that, or any, tax payer money to buy toys for the rich. Not until every man, woman and, child, in this country is safe and warm, in a home.

Maybe part could be spend on re-training so, they can get jobs. I'm totally disgusted by the way rich politicians, in this country, use the tax payer money to buy their toys and then, let people live and, starve in the streets.
Nanobanano
Dec 07, 2011

Rank: 1.7 / 5 (3)
Imagine:

yeah, we got serious social and moral issues in this country.

There is no jobs because of automation and other advances in technology. More and more products are producted by robots and other highly automated systems, leaving little demand for human works of any skill level.

The jobs are by and large never coming back, which means unemployment is always going to be about this bad or worse, give or take a few points.

This represents what will be a revolution in the whole concept of what income and wealth are.

Replace enough people with automated systems and then currency will fail totally. Any concept of capitalism will fail totally.

Why? Because if you don't have employees then people don't have money to buy the products made by the robotic factories that all the filthy rich people will own. So then the rich people will have no customers.
Jay2161
Dec 08, 2011

Rank: 3 / 5 (2)
The 8.8 billion dollars is not going to be converted to bearer bonds and blasted into space- every penny will be spent in the US economy and used to create jobs and research opportunities. Granted it is being spent by the government but it's going to end up with US companies and ultimately US citizens, so don't feel too bad about it.
mfritz0
Dec 08, 2011

Rank: 3.7 / 5 (3)
It's really a shame they let the Red Chinese agents comment here down grading this project that will clearly improve technology by leaps and bounds in the future. Is the only thing they can complain about is how much money it costs? How pathetic, I get tired of listening to the programmed response these enemy agents are spewing.
FrankHerbert
Dec 08, 2011

Rank: 0.7 / 5 (48)
Oh wow it all makes sense now mfritz0. Pirouette actually is a Red Chinese disinformation agent trying to get Americans to take up conservatism so they implode and leave the world to the Chinese.

If I were insane that's what I would believe.
CHollman82
Dec 08, 2011

Rank: 5 / 5 (2)
If anyone actually benefited from anything in space exploration, nobody would complain about the costs.

pretty much my entire life space exploration has amounted to this:

Discovery X is made.

"yawn. That's pretty neat, but so what?"

And about the only thing you got out of it was a wallpaper for somebody's desk top.

No offense, but Hubble didn't help make a better computer, and it didn't advance medicine. Hell, it hasn't even really advanced theoretical physics or particle physics, at least not in any PRACTICAL sense. We haven't had any new materials or technology discoveries based on any new science discovered by Hubble, etc.

Ultimately, all it did was make some pretty false color pictures.


Wow...
CHollman82
Dec 08, 2011

Rank: 4 / 5 (4)
Wow...


I mean, I guess if you don't give a damn about discovering the nature of the reality we live in and only care about marketability of a product then sure, I guess Hubble was a waste of time and money...

But if you think like that you are a waste of life IMO.
MIBO
Dec 10, 2011

Rank: not rated yet
what a lot of people overlook wuth a project like this is it pushes the boundaries of science. when you do that you come up against unforseen issues and invent ways to overcome them, so as the budget grows so does the payback in the new developments. If we knew axactly how to do everything and how much it would cost before we started then we wouldn't learn anything during the development process.
So it is not wasted money, but like many things in the space program it's difficult to quantify exactly where the paybacks are.
At the end of the day it's not a project consuming vast natural resources, and the engineers working on it have to be paid to do something, so it's better to pay them to work on this, developing new technology for the benfit of us all and keep the money circulating in the economy, than make them redundant and sitting at home claiming benefits.
fgordon
Dec 10, 2011

Rank: not rated yet
Many commentaries above show little or no knowledge of project management and budgeting. In projects that involve research and invention, budgeting is always a bit of a gamble. In fact, there are project methodologies that take this into account and try to work around the inconveniences. Look up SCRUM. This is a methodology that specifies a project deadline, but does not promise to deliver everything required on time. It only says that the most important bits will be delivered on time but not necessarily all of the less important ones. That is, because it is acknowledged that such projects tend to spill over their deadlines and budgets. It's a known fact in the several (if not all) industries that have to do with research.
huntingsthompson
Dec 11, 2011

Rank: not rated yet
What's to stop some small space debris from wreaking havoc on the mirrored segments?
A Brit whoisntafraid ofthetruth_
Dec 11, 2011

Rank: 1 / 5 (1)
What is sickening about this entire project is that it has been, as have the majority of NASA projects, conceived and executed by people that have no regard for the needs of the American Citizens whose health and well being has declined in recent years whilst NASA see fit to go back to the fruit bowl for more. Let us see all Americans go the government with a bright idea and get unjustified amounts of funding to enable their projects.
This is a case of national pride and the conceit of the scientific community overtaking rational and reasonable policy making. No wonder Sensenbrenner was despairing of it all.
Callippo
Dec 11, 2011

Rank: not rated yet
I've only one advice for Americans: just invest into cold fusion, remove this silly dependency on the East Asia oil and you'll get lotta money for adventurous projects like the JWST or Apollo again. I'd stop the JWST project already being at their place, but the whining will not help anybody by now. Press your local politicians to the accelerated implementation of cold fusion - whole the financial crisis comes just from fossil fuel price crisis (and expensive fossil fuel wars maintained with fossil fuel lobby) - nothing else.

http://www.boston...ory.html
Rank 4.5 /5 (17 votes)
Related Stories
Relevant PhysicsForums posts
  • Calculating the magnitude
    created2 hours ago
  • What is this spectrum I took?
    created12 hours ago
  • Orientation of Space
    created12 hours ago
  • Geologically Active Moon Now: NASA
    created19 hours ago
  • advice on building a science fair telescope
    createdFeb 22, 2012
  • Rise of the Sun
    createdFeb 22, 2012
  • More from Physics Forums - General Astronomy

More news stories

Spitzer finds solid buckyballs in space

(PhysOrg.com) -- Astronomers using data from NASA's Spitzer Space Telescope have, for the first time, discovered buckyballs in a solid form in space. Prior to this discovery, the microscopic carbon spheres ...

Space & Earth / Astronomy

created 14 hours ago | popularity 4.7 / 5 (12) | comments 8 | with audio podcast

Going up: Japan builder eyes space elevator

A Japanese construction firm claimed Wednesday it could execute an out-of-this-world plan to put tourists in space within 40 years by building an elevator that stretches a quarter of the way to the moon.

Space & Earth / Space Exploration

created 21 hours ago | popularity 3.5 / 5 (13) | comments 26

ENASA satellite finds Earth's clouds are getting lower

(PhysOrg.com) -- Earth's clouds got a little lower -- about one percent on average -- during the first decade of this century, finds a new NASA-funded university study based on NASA satellite data. The results ...

Space & Earth / Earth Sciences

created 18 hours ago | popularity 5 / 5 (8) | comments 13 | with audio podcast

Fresh scandal embroils US climate science debate

A fresh scandal over climate change has erupted in the United States after leaked documents appeared to show a right-wing funded campaign to influence how climate science is taught in schools.

Space & Earth / Environment

created 10 hours ago | popularity 4.1 / 5 (9) | comments 8

World's oceans get an acid bath

Among the repercussions of global climate change, the effect of ocean acidification on marine life is one of the least-understood variables.

Space & Earth / Environment

created 17 hours ago | popularity 4.3 / 5 (6) | comments 4 | with audio podcast


Researchers build first physical 'metatronic' circuit

(PhysOrg.com) -- The technological world of the 21st century owes a tremendous amount to advances in electrical engineering, specifically, the ability to finely control the flow of electrical charges using ...

Faster than light neutrinos? More like faulty wiring

You can shelf your designs for a warp drive engine (for now) and put the DeLorean back in the garage; it turns out neutrinos may not have broken any cosmic speed limits after all.

Physicists surprised by disappearing and reappearing superconductivity in iron selenium chalcogenides

Superconductivity is a rare physical state in which matter is able to conduct electricity -- maintain a flow of electrons -- without any resistance. This phenomenon can only be found in certain materials at low temperatures, ...

CT colonography shown to be comparable to standard colonoscopy

Computerized tomographic (CT) colonography (CTC), also known as virtual colonoscopy, is comparable to standard colonoscopy in its ability to accurately detect cancer and precancerous polyps in people ages 65 and older, according ...

Stanford research team cracks animated NuCaptcha

(PhysOrg.com) -- The research team from Stanford University, led by Elie Bursztein, that previously had cracked regular CAPTCHAs and then audio CAPTCHAs, now has also successfully cracked the animated version called NuCapt ...

Study: Virtual colonoscopy effective screening tool for adults over 65

Computed tomography (CT) colonography can be used as a primary screening tool for colorectal cancer in adults over the age of 65, according to a new study published online in the journal Radiology.