As energy bills soar, Japanese test fuel of future

i need one of them ther machines for my cow manure!
Someone said tat Lowe's beat out Wal*Mart on having them in all their stores next year....did you hear that Homer Lee!

Its an idea that needs to be tested and I am glad to see Japan taking the initiative. I would love to be independent on producing my own heat and power for the house instead of being metered. Hopefully this technology proves successful....19k is not much to get off the "grid".

Hopefully the oil prices say high and get higher to push for real change instead of falling back on dependence of foreign oil, etc. As for liquid fuel, make synthetic fuel from coal like the South Africans have been doing for decades already:

http://www.post-g...8-28.stm

"After all is said and done, more is said than every done." It is high time that there is a national push to get ourselves disconnected from the hose to Arab nations and others. What does it actually take, maybe a few weeks of sitting in the dark with no TV or heat or AC? Our presidential people in office for the last 30 years now have forgotten all about the oil embargo days of the mid 70's because we did not learn our lesson back then so I do not suspect that we will learn it now either. RESEARCH & DEVELOPMENT is needed now, so where it the direction in all of this? In Iraq maybe.

The greatest threat to National Security is the dependence on foreign oil. Alternative power should be a norm. I agree with weewilly that the past and current Presidents are largely responsible for our lack of funding for alternative energy, hence our oil dependence.

19k is not much to get off the "grid".

What gave you the idea that getting off the grid is desirable or that this would make you independent?

This is a way to capture waste heat and reduce transmission costs by having much of generation capacity close to customers. You're still buying natural gas(almost as limited as oil), you're still buying electricity from the grid when the fuel cell is not enough and selling when you have a surplus.

The greatest threat to National Security is the dependence on foreign oil. Alternative power should be a norm.

Generating electric power using oil is almost unheard of in the western world these days. The japanese scheme would not cut your oil dependence but it would have some R&D overlap with hydrogen fuel cell vehicles.

The problem with hydrogen is that the easy source are undesirable, natural gas for its price and scarcity and coal for its CO2, heavy metals and sulfur. Hydrogen fuel cells can outcompete the internal combustion engines efficiency wise from the same hydrocarbon fuel. When you produce hydrogen gas via electricity they stop making sense, they simply cannot be as efficient as using that electric power directly and you would have to build extensive infrastructure to distribute hydrogen.

It simply amazes me that people are actually convinced hydrogen fuel cells decrease CO2. They DO NOT Unless you are getting the power to produce the hydrogen from a CArbon clean source. (wind, hydro, solar, nuclear, geothermal.)

Splitting hydrogen from natural gas?! LOL. That is DIRTIER than buring the natural gas directly, because most of the energy is lost in the form of waste heat AND you still realease Carbon.


This article is simply retarded. Right now "Fuel Cells" serve no purpose whatsoever untill nations get their no-carbon energy production high enough for all automobiles of their citizens. Fuel cells merely store power, and taking the entire process into consideration, they are still wasting a lot of energy.

Hey though.. You know what would be a good idea?
If they made massive solar plants in the middle of the desert and used that electricity in huge hydrogen plants. The electricity that can be used nearby can go to the grid and what isn't used nearby could be made into hydrogen and pumped to the far reaches of the continent. You dont get resistive losses for transmitting a gas do you?

This absolutely is a good step towards
a relatively clean energy footprint,
even though they will still be using
hydrocarbons they are one third setup
to having onsight hydrogen electrolysis
and a green grid- and yea I consider
new style nuclear clean, encased in
pyroclastic carbon the waste should never
have to be an issue

You dont get resistive losses for transmitting a gas do you?

That's a bizarre statement.

Making the hydrogen is only about 70% efficient; that right there is already a far bigger loss than all loses involved in transmitting electricity combined(including AC/DC inversion, line losses, transformer losses...).

Compressing the hydrogen enough for transport in pipelines and storage will cost you about 10% of it's energy content. That too is by itself bigger than typical line-losses.

Hydrogen gas has a strong propensity for leaking and even diffuses into and straight through some metals.

The hydrogen doesn't just move itself throughout the pipeline; a pressure gradient is required to do this, adding a few percent more waste into moving it.

There are thermodynamic limits to how efficient hydrogen gas fuel cells can be; about 80% at room temperature. in practice they are 30-50% efficient; while a battery is 90% efficient.

Having on location electricity generation does not mean you have to run exclusively off that source- having on site hydrogen electrolysis for a fuel cell is backup power when the grid does go down, of course you would waste energy converting it from electricity to hydrogen then back to electricity. But when you live in a country that has 2 earthquakes a day and is rather small such considerations should be taken.

I can positively guarantee you 100 percent that we in the US will be the absolute LAST nation on earth to switch to hydrogen, bio-fuels or any other alternative power. Why? Because the multi-TRILLION dollar infrastructure that is now in place (garages, gas stations, mechanics shops, oil refineries, lube shops, and of course, the oil barons who run government policy ) will NEVER NEVER EVER let go of thier monopoly. If you don't believe that, then go ahead and keep paying 4,5,6 dollars and up for you fuel. We are a nation of SUCKERS who have lost our American revolutionary spirit. Instead, we have been turned into mindless, impotent sheep who line up silenty and meekly at the pump, accepting without a word whatever they TELL US TO PAY . So sad, so SAD...