Cannabis less harmful than drinking, smoking: report
October 2, 2008Cannabis is less harmful than alcohol or tobacco, according to a report by a British research charity Thursday, which called for a "serious rethink" of drug policy.
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Criminalizing drugs the way it is done now, based on politics not science, is the biggest mistake of the law. Young people need to be taught respect for it, treating them like criminals for something as harmless only induces a lifelong aversion and contempt for anything related to law.
Many who drink are prone to exibit violence while under alchols effect. I have never seen anyone become violent while under the effects of cannibis. I do believe that cannibis should be completely legalized and quailty controlled world wide.
You can bet that the pharmaceutical companies, distilleries and big breweries don't want to see people growing their own herb in their backyards.
If we are to be consistent, we need to either ban everything, or we need to identify which products are harmful enough to ban, vs those where a ban would cost more (socially as well as fiscally) than it's worth. IMO, alcohol and pot are at the same level, while tobacco should be classed with the 'B' stuff.
BWAHAHA! Smoke up, stoners!
I'd rather legalize marijuana. Yes I know the examples of free reign for drugs are very negative when it comes to addiction rates and medical costs however, it would greatly reduce the fiscal strain on the legal system in the US and probably prevent more "dangerous" underage usage. If you look at Europe, the stats on drunk driving are lower in countries with an earlier introduction to alcohol and responsible use. Most likely marijuana would follow suit. Crime rates would go down as prices for drugs would go down. The "import" tax brought on by having to illicitly transport drugs would vanish.
I think the main reason why the US doesn't want to legalize marijuana is more due to the fact that now you'd be turning criminals into market cornering businessmen. In reality are they that far off now?
You do realize that's utter nonsense. The US spends more money on putting marijuana users in jail than they do on education.
And where does that money come from? Taxes they get to increase and use the "overflow" for their pet projects. The government benefits from spending our money.
If the government had nothing to spend money on, we wouldn't let them take it from us.
Chew, inject, powder and inhale, patch, gum, pill, liquefy and swallow... I don't care. Just DON'T SMOKE.
Wow, there's a rationalization for you. Listen, if the govt was to legalize pot, they'd immediately be able to sin-tax it, which would be a huge windfall, plus they'd remove the costs of prosecuting it, which would be a huge windfall, plus they'd still have the other taxes (unless you believe they'd reduce those taxes -- hah!) which would be a huge windfall. You have to be smoking something much stronger than cannabis to seriously believe that keeping pot illegal is a money-maker.
I think it might have more to do with the puritanical mindset that seems to be the dominant attitude in the US, the idea being that anything fun must be immoral. Heck, a lot of christians are against *dancing*.
IMO the biggest reason for legalizing it is for regulation and quality control. A very big problem with the street stuff right now (so I've heard :-) is that you're getting more than pot in your pot. Dealers are lacing it with stuff that's a little more addictive, to ensure repeat business. Legitimization of the product would at least ensure that you aren't getting any surprises.
I have seen cancer studies that conclude on both sides. I'm not decided, but studies are often skewed by extremely weak cannabis samples and inefficient absorbtion methods that involve a lot of byproduct absorbtion.
Personally, it is the only of the three I indulge in, but it's certainly not harmless. Occasionally as I start to catch a cold I get painful dry spots on the back of my throat, teeth take on an easily removable but gross looking yellow tint, and my lung capacity diminishes if I don't get a good aerobic workout going every week or two, so I'd like to quit soon. Still, while under the influence I often engage in discussions no less serious or contemplative than I would for this site (it just requires effort to remain focused) and operate video games, mountainbikes offroad, and occasionally motorcycles to no detriment or failure... of course that's just one of millions of anecdotes.
Ultimately the ones who claim it's harmless are as wrong as the ones who say it's deadly though - it is still fundamentally a bad idea to force smoke inhalation!
D666 - I can confirm some who lace with PCP, but generally not unadvertised. Like other disassociatives, PCP can lead to "Olney's Lesions" but apparently in most subjects does not cause violence. The only people I've known to find this stuff however, have asked for it. Otherwise I don't think it would be worth the cost or discontent from customers.
As for cancer risk, I have read studies that suggest it is much more dangerous than tobacco, but it would seem more research is needed. I'm glad you agree that it is "fundamentally a bad idea to force smoke inhalation" - I would have thought that was blindingly obvious.
I screwed up, I meant to say no known cases of death from a marijuana overdose. Many thousands of people die every year from overdosing on alcohol. Anyway, cannabis is a natural product that has been used very safely for thousands of years. This doesn't mean that it has no side effects or that there are not some people who should not use it. Also I wonder how one would go about proving that the marijuana use caused the psychosis.
As for the cancer risk, I have read some articles that suggested the opposite conclusion, in fact some stating that cannabis has anti-cancer properties.
As for cannabis being used "safely for thousands of years", I disagree. Just because something has been USED for thousands of years doesn't mean it is SAFE (e.g. alcohol, tobacco).
As for "proving" that cannabis caused the psychosis in my friend, all of the people that knew him are have NO DOUBT that his cannabis use was a major factor. As I said, the fact that there is a link between the two is well established; what is disputed is whether the cannabis actually causes mental health issues or merely "triggers" an underlying problem. This is always going to be difficult to prove, since diagnosing mental health issues generally requires monitoring of symptoms. I'd suggest for the victims it doesn't make a lot of difference.
Actually, nicotine has been proven as the real gateway with over 90% of smack and coke addicts having been hooked on cigs first.
Cigarettes, as nicotine being the most addictive substance known to man, have been proven to enable the addictive process in the brain.
Jarry, that is ignorant nonsense. The cancer risk is higher for cannabis than for tobacco. Then there are the secondary effects. I personally knew someone who committed suicide due to psychosis triggered by cannabis use. There is a well established link between cannabis and mental health issues.
not linked to lung cancer...
http://www.webmd....g-cancer
not linked to brain and neck
http://www.physor...239.html
and i could cite hundreds more that show proof it acts in two ways to cure cancer. European journal of pharmacology ISSN 0014-2999 CODEN EJPHAZ for example, or making check out the extensive study done by the university of madrid on gastrointestinal tumors being treated.
I feel for you friend going into psychosis from marijuana but the pot only gave them a gentle nudge- their brain chemistry almost within certainty was unstable, pot is not like coke (which litterly makes you schizophrenic in symptom) crazy people do drugs too you know..
How do you explain per-capita that marijuana use is lower in the netherlands where it is legal. And I suppose you would allow people to stand outside your house doing anything else?
And you surely cannot dismiss that crime would be lower if it was- every user would then be legal- that would free up 40% of US jails if it was atleast close to legal, that should save you enough money to build a fence...
Not completely harmless, harmless when compared to other things like tobacco or alcohol.
And the harm done by jailing young people who smoke is incomparable to any of the above. It not only ruins their lives by turning them into criminals it also damages lives of those who are later victims of their crimes. Not to mention the costs associated with jailing and lost taxes.
Finally thanks to this sick politics young people are easily hooked by dealers onto hard drags, since after experiencing for themselves the "deadly pot" they tend to think all drugs are as harmless, realizing only too late that some like crack or heroin are indeed deadly.
In the last few years in ireland they've started selling legal ecstacy (TFMPP) in shops and people I know who would normally take ecstacy or speed on a night out don't seem to be too bothered now because gettin their hands on something that'll give them a buzz isn't such a big deal, not to mention they know exactly what they're getting because the exact ingredients and strength are on the pack.
With the amount of crap in the hash that makes it's way over here (lead pellets, glass beads...seriously) the government should step up and take a bit of responsibility and legalise it allowing us to smoke cannabis responsibly without the unbelieveably dodgey stuff that nomally goes into it.
If I remember correctly there was a thorough research that concluded alcohol and sigarettes were much more damaging to our health than XTC and cannabis. Especially alcohol is a dangerous, dangerous harddrug. The world needs to grasp this notion and act on it as fast as it can.
If you look into the reclassification on this in the uk from class c to b, all it actuall gives the government is more power to apply there "stealth tax" 3 times. Step 1, (first time caught) fine.... step 2 (secound time caught) bigger fine.... step 3, should i go on.
Coco, if you're going to engage in this kind of irony, PLEASE put an emoticon in there somewhere. There *are* people out there who actually would deliver this kind of drivel with a straight face, and you really don't want to be associated with them.
Just some friendly advice.
No, it's neither. It's rampaging fundamentalist lunacy, based on nothing but vapid cliches. BTW, dipwad, I live in Kanada, and I'd rather be here than where you are. Also, we are not communist -- we're not even really socialist, which is a different animal (if you had the intelligence of a fencepost you'd know that). I don't even understand the comment about electrical outages, since it doesn't seem to relate to us at all (maybe another one of your paranoid fantasies), the police comment is equally perplexing, and the "filth and horror" bit is just a joke. But hey -- don't let little details like reality get in your way. By all means, rave on. We could use a good laugh.
'Look at Amsterdam'? What experience do you have in Amsterdam, other than the exaggerated rumours that are widespread throughout the world. It mostly is fantasy, Holland is one of the countries where drugs are one of the smallest national problems. Of course there are people who smoke cannabis there, but in small quantities and good quality (not with all those unhealthy additives). The reason Amsterdam (and the Dutch indirectly) is the way it is and has such an image is because of it's tourism. Yes, those are mostly people of other countries who think it's greener (pun intended) on the other side. Most Dutch people are very aware of the dangers of drugs, and they don't have the desire to smoke pot everywhere they can, because it's tolerated.
Nope; different kind of hemp.
Don't know what YOU are smoking; but, it's definitely not the good stuff!
I agree, *for the person smoking*. When you eat at McDonalds 3 times a day that doesn't effect MY health at all. When you smoke while living in the same apartment building as me, it does.
So there is a difference.
As I said, I don't care if they legalize cannabis. No biggy. But all forms of smoking should be illegal. As far as I'm concerned people can do whatever they want to themselves... so long as they aren't hurting anyone else. That's why drunk driving is illegal, and that's why smoking should be illegal.
Which one can you buy in the store? Which one would you buy for your kids? Both have been known to trigger psychotic episodes when over consumed or consumed in high concentration by people with a predisposition to mental problems.
Heck, if you eat two 24 packs of paracetamol you'll die, everytime, slowly and painfully, from liver failure, without IV n-acetyl-cystine. Should it be a criminal offense to posses it?
If people want to smoke on a regular basis then let them suffer the consequences by refusing medical treatment for smoking related disease.
There's too many of us anyway. Lets work out this food / air deal, then you can go back to your smoking.
How many childhoods would been calmer if their father were a bong-head rather than a raging alcoholic. Oh, it'd have it's problems too - but violence would not be one.
Personally, tried every drug at least 5 times, and none of em is better than a clear mind, healthy body and quality sleep.
So why do millions of people die from smoke inhalation from cooking fires every year?
Nobody knows, you don't know if marijuana triggered it. That is a totally unwarranted leap, to that conclusion.
People like to blame "drugs", it's convenient and it hides inconvenient truths.
I went crazy in college. I was smoking marijuana a few times a week and taking hallucinogens during vacations. I'd come from a terribly abusive family, I was incredibly anxious, I felt incredibly threatened. People from my uncle's family blamed drugs. But my uncle, like my father, was abusive - except that things weren't quite so obvious as with my father, so people kept their perceptions all buttoned down - like my aunt, who castigated him and complained about him, but rationalized how he acted. And acknowledging how abusive my father was, would have struck too close to home.
And I found out many years later that I was gluten intolerant, that gluten caused hallucinogenic effects and made me very anxious.
I felt pretty freaked out one time after having used speed (with some hallucinogen). But marijuana never made me feel freaked out. And after college, I used drugs, mostly marijuana, without going crazy again.
There are such convenient scapegoats, like drugs, and I smell (dead) rats when people blame drugs for things that have so many other causes.
How many pounds of brownies would that be?
Personally, I prefer potato chips.
I agree, that's what I've always felt, that people just have a right to use drugs if they want to, and society has to deal with the consequences. Just like we have AA for people who can't drink moderately.
People don't have an absolute right to put whatever they want into their bodies. Like with antibiotic resistance. If people had free access to antibiotics they'd be overused terribly and they'd become useless. People would take them when they had colds or allergies.
So it's actually a right to change your consciousness as you like, not an right to get any chemical you want and put it into your body.
To be precise, each of us DOES have the right to "get any chemical you want and put it into your body."
What we lack is the right to expose others to the consequences of such.
Chill out maaan, just kick back and relax and don't be so heavy dude.
Ok, that was a joke.. now I'll be more serious:
Do you drink tea or coffee?. Have you ever taken chocolate based confectionary or beverages. Have you ever used tobacco products?. Have you, at any point in your life, had a glass of alcohol. If the answer to any of these questions is yes then YOU are guilty of consuming a naturally occurring stimulant!.
Some available strains of Cannabis have been genetically altered or hybridized to increase their strength to unacceptable levels but the standard Cannabis plant grows wild and has little affect on users other than to relax or help them with medical problems like Arthritis. It has great potential to be a legal medical product. Are you suggesting we should subject somebody to "serious prison time" for drinking a cannabis based herbal tea to help relieve chronic joint (no pun intended) pain?.
I think you need to rethink your perspective on this issue. If not then maybe start a campaign to irradiate ALL legally available stimulants, including those previously mentioned.
http://www.fdadrugstore.org - my favorite web site
http://www.online...tore.org
That's my only concern really. Otherwise, bring on the new tax revenues on it. :D
COCO, I'm sorry, but you've been blinded by dogma and have no proof to offer. It CAN be a "ladder drug" simply because the dealers are smugglers of illegal substances and may offer more than one thing.
Please elucidate the "misry, filth and painfull death associated with pot." Tobacco has lung cancer and heart disease risk, as well as loss of skin and vein elasticity. Alcohol... about 10x what it takes to intoxicate you will run about a 50% chance of killing you (The "LD50" dose.) Sounds like a lot, but I have friends who have almost died of alcohol poisoning... a few times.
Cannabis... is a vasoconstrictor - it will constrict the blood vessels temporarily. The real shame is that serious research so often shies away from it so it's far less understood than it could be. However, from tests with rats, it is assumed that the LD50 for a human would be 8kg of pure THC - very powerful pot might have around 17% THC, and if smoked, you would certainly die of smoke inhalation and other complications before the drug even made a dent in your health, so "toxin" is a real misnomer.
Also, I happen to know many potheads. Several have tried magic mushrooms a few times. A couple even tried cocaine despite my protests - but none of them liked it and they all quit. Really. I figured it would be more addictive, but it just wasn't economically practical or enjoyable for them. None of us have tried any needle drugs whatsoever, or before you suggest it, any kind of amphetamine or related substance. While one of these guys does not work due to non-drug related disability, the others are all gainfully employed. I have a government job maintaining computers and the systems that interface with them for a living, and I think you'll find pot use is so prevalent there are actually many professionals who use it quite regularly.
Then again, I'm just a hunter gatherer from Canada, so I could have just hallucinated the whole thing UNDER THE MIND CRUSHING GRIP OF REEFER MADNESS... hahaha... But seriously, I suggest you check facts, or openly state the uncertainty factor when making such bold assertions on a science oriented website, or you will never be taken seriously.
I've decided to not further debate this issue with you COCO, for the following reason:
You seem to be embarrassingly naive and intentionaly contrary attention seeker who deserves nothing but contempt, I'm happy to oblige.
Goodnight.
That's funny. I remember my parents saying that when I was a kid, then I found out they smoked pot. Never been on welfare or even unemployment, and I bet I make a good deal more than you COCO. Thanks for the laughs.
Man you're a riot. No I'm American, that's with a C not a K. Judging by your inability to spell properly I'm going to assume that you're admitting to being a giant pothead by your own generalist ideals.
And as for your investments, I'm an 8 foot tall fire fighter who makes millions of dollars a day and gets to bang any woman I want to.
See, isn't internet pretend time fun?
Epic.
And, during intermission, as always, please note that smoking is allowed only on the concourse.
And where, pray tell, are those, other than yourself, who make up this "consensus?"
Either you were the producer of "Reefer Madness" or the one idiot that bought into its lies.
Yep. Nutbar declares victory while "advancing to the rear".
People, you have to understand what's really happening here. In the religious fundamentalist milieu, it's all about words. Bon mots. Delivery. No one ever actually checks facts (or even acknowledges their existance), it's just a talking game. The idea is to sound best, or at least most assured. When theists get out into the real world, where the rest of us actually pay attention to what you're saying and, more importantly, are willing to question it, the theists are unable to adapt. Coco is having a problem here because he came out and made imperative statements with an assured tone and we didn't immediately fold. Instead, we actually had the gall to argue. Imagine! How dare we question the direct word of god!
More and more it is becoming apparent that Dawkins was right -- religion really is a mental illness.
God says he gave us all seed bearing plants on earth to use.
(btw d666, excellent sentiment).
Please do - rest, that is.
And which "majority" would that be? Clearly it is not one here represented.
They use heroin?
For everyone saying Marijuana causes this or leads to that, you're wrong, there have not been enough studies, because you don't do serious side effect studies on illegal drugs.
To everyone saying it is safe, you're wrong, there have not been enough studies, because you don't do serious side effect studies on illegal drugs.
Here are some important points, ALL smoke has been linked to forms of cancer, plastic bags, wood, paper, meat, etc. Heat from the smoke and tar which would be in any organic smoke are the major contributers to the cellular mutations and to the lung disease, emphysema, heart disease, poor circulatory health, etc. Nicotine is just one of many probable carcinogens.
All that being said I guess I probably ought to pony up my Cigarettes since they fall in to the same catagory, but I won't. Never tried Pot, never had a strong enough urge, something about severe allergy, please donate money to the Center for Finding a Cure to Canabis Allergies(CFCCA) rather than sending flowers, I'm allergic to flowers too. :(
But seriously the people using religion to support your arguements, are you sure that you want the country run by religion, and more importantly are you sure the majority will side with your denomination? I'm not. If christianity was meant to be a form of government then why would the Son of God choose(must be a choice, he's the Son of God here) not to take over the world and rule with his iron will?
I think it'd be fantastic if we did become a monotheistic country(US here) and and the various "legitimate religions" argued enough to allow the Church of the Flying Spagetti monster to rule over us, except I'm kind of Anti-Pirate not because I don't believe they were freindly or good people, but because I'm kinda pro global warming, especially today it was frickin 31degrees F this morning.