Earth would be heading to a freeze without CO2 emissions
November 12th, 2008
This September 2008 NOAA satellite images shows a full disk Western Hemisphere view of the Earth. Scheduled shifts in Earth's orbit should plunge the planet into an enduring Ice Age thousands of years from now but the event will probably be averted because of man-made greenhouse gases, scientists said Wednesday.
Scheduled shifts in Earth's orbit should plunge the planet into an enduring Ice Age thousands of years from now but the event will probably be averted because of man-made greenhouse gases, scientists said Wednesday.
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22
"We don't want to give people that impression," he said. "(...) You can't use this argument to justify [man-made] global warming."
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I say why not? Would the author rather slip into an ice age where most of Europe, N America, Russia, and Japan are no longer habitable and the world's principle food growing area is cut in half?? "...translating into hunger, homelessness and other stresses for millions (no, billions) of people."
--
"Left unchecked, climate change could inflict widespread drought and flooding by the end of the century, translating into hunger, homelessness and other stresses for millions of people."
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"climate change" here obviously means just global warming; then why not call it that, or are they hedging their bets just in case they're wrong and the earth continues it's 10 yr cooling. What human device will they blame that on?
The transition to any orbital induced ice age is many thousands of years away. Lets focus on the problems at hamd.
deatopmg,
They call it climate change because with global warming, the earth won't heat up uniformly all over. Some places will be abnormally hot, but some places will be abnormally cold (which undermines anti-climate-change arguments by stupid commenters saying how cold it was/how much snow they had last winter).
1. "Humans contribute nothing to global warming,"
or
2. "Human contributions to global warming are good."
?
Is there going to be a split in the Church of Global Warming Denialism sometime soon over this core theological issue?
Fight global cooling! Drive that SUV!
Still, I would like to see less pollution. It is rather silly for humanity to be poisoning it's own nest.
Cheers
-Walter
Sugar Mountain Farm
in the mountains of Vermont
http://SugarMtnFarm.com/blog/
http://HollyGraphicArt.com/
http://NoNAIS.org
1. "Humans contribute nothing to global warming,"
or
2. "Human contributions to global warming are good."
?"
The answer is "There isn't enough carbon on the planet to counteract the effects of an ice age. Even if every speck were converted to CO2 gas, carbon only amounts to 0.3% of the chemical elements on our planet, excluding whatever is inside the mantle and core."
Nope, it's a socialist.
They also tend to ignore the 20,000 prevented deaths from cold weather events if the warming trend continues.
Yes we don't know enough, some of us are well aware of it. But the studies done so far show that GW is more probable then not.
Besides it is obvious that there is *some* impact of all the gases and pollution we release and since we don't know enough to tell what it is (with enough confidence) it certainly is wise to try to limit our impact until we know more.
That said certainly *all* economic costs of any incentive have to be considered and for any significant reduction they are rather astronomical. That and the fact that 99% of human population only care about themselves and don't give a damn about the future (and I am not much better, there are good reasons why we are that way) makes my doubt that any significant progress is possible.
Besides all the developing countries won't be willing to strangle their economy to lower greenhouse gas emissions and the others have no moral right to protest since they themselves already released plenty of this stuff before they got to where they are today.
The only hope is in new technology, I believe nanotechnology will soon take off and it should provide us with cheaper energy and more economical methods of gas capture.
Without some technological answer we are bound to end up in one extreme or the other eventually (and I also rather have GW then ice age).
This is a physics buff site and as I read story after story,I have wondered over and over if any of you are over 14 ??
Sometime you might try a new look at your goofy,absurd Phd. Gurus that feed you folks the Climate/C02 garbage and that also absurd photo-synthesis garbage they feed you.
Mathematics has NEVER explained how the universe works either,you need a Grid Scientist to give you your basics,or the full meal deal,not one of your Rubix cubist mathematician.
There is mathematic measurements to explain the geometry of the Grid system,but not without the basics of the science first. So c'mon guys and gals , WAKE THE F >>> K UP.
Actually a lot of the people you label as "denialists" care rather deeply about the future. We simply ask for more proof before we make a potentially devastating decision for our children. I don't want my children to grow up in poverty, with no choice in their products, paying huge sums of money just to stay warm.
I want them to be able to take advantage of industrial progress, and the taming of the land as my ancestors did for me.
And there's absolutely no proof of that. But if we stem our economies and growth we may not have the human or economic resources required to save ourselves from destruction.
I have multiple reasons for wanting these things. From energy security to cost, from my anti-smog stance(heh) to a desire for technological advancement and the quality of life improvements that come from moving forward (and a simple desire for exploration). Global warming or not, these are good moves.
2 words:
Tinfoil
hat
2 demerits for red hearing: "children". Yes, the other side is out to get them! Call Palin!
> I want them to be able to take advantage of industrial progress, and the taming of the land as my ancestors did for me.
The whole argument is based on a flawed premise: IF we respond to global warming, IT will cost so much THEN the economy will decline.
Kind of like those times when the government spent tons of money on the national highway system... how did we ever recover?? Or, the billions and billions of pure socialist dollars that built the internet -- total disaster that was.
Let's see, investing multiple billions to build a better electrical grid, tons of money for creating new battery technologies, cash for ever more efficient solar cells, new ways of splitting water for hydrogen, smarter much more efficient machines, building materials and buildings.
Oooh, it would be a disaster for your kids to live in such a world! Let the foolish Chinese do all that! Not us! We'll stick to burning fossilized plants and pond algae! And if a little land taming was good, lets just keep on scaling it up! Amusement parks in Yosemite, shopping malls in Yellowstone. Condos in the city park hell yeah. Children are going to have a good 'ol time.
So anyway ,you are out of luck on that one,maybe some day I can get you a lifter ride,and you would not be such an impertinent young man.
My office works to keep the grid system whole by not allowing things to be altered by excessive mining and process against our heating and motor and because we usually do those things in private,you are not informed,but little ole me lets out System information that is not harmful to anyone,just informative,as I tire of the boys who destroy things that they have no clue about.
Complain to your government,as we are NOT them,and sometimes they dont like us,but thats tough. Turn me in as a tin foil hatter letting out level 20 security information, I just love to fight with those boys,cuz I have diplomatic immunity and make them take antacids when I meet with them.
I was engaged on the planet as that Grid Scientist on Jan 1 2007,and my administration of the office is very different from the previous tin foiler,and he just had no humor at all,and I am just a tad different,but I do offer the NSA men who come and attempt to threaten me some organic cookies and a fruit juice,and I make them wait every time,but they do get paid salary,I believe,and so do I.
System Operator and Tin foil hatter , OUT
1) Spell check: Learn it. Use it. Make love to it.
2) FFS commas CANNOT BE USED IN PLACE OF PERIODS. Honestly, you are trying to tell me that you went to university but don't have even the most basic clue on how to use a comma? Riiiiight. And I'm not talking about occasional mistakes, cause we all make those. No, this is a systematic lack of understanding of basic grammar and punctuation.
3) Proofreading is your friend. This means you, Earth"Scientist".
4) I'd critique the content of your post, but it is completely incomprehensible due to the large number of language errors.
As I implied earlier, I don't require perfection in non-formal writing; a mistake here and there is fine... but come on. The level of piss-poor Engrish going on here is mind boggling.
Normally I wouldn't comment, cause I'm not a grammar nazi, but I have to laugh that someone like you, EarthScientist, is claiming to have anything higher than a grade 5 education.
Of course all of this goes out the window if it turns out that you were completely hammered or high when you wrote that post...
We have not recently been using the Gravitational-wave Resonance Index Drive. The project was running briefly in the late 1990's under the direction of Professor Dwight G. Penwicky PHD ES, until it was demonstrated that the temporal effects were not controllable with existing software. Any representations that the project was still being funded by NSA in 2007, are obviously unfounded. Dr. Penwicky, the self-styled "Earth Scientist" has been the subject of a search by several Federal Agencies since his disappearance in April 1999. If anyone has any contact with Dr. Penwicky, please contact your local FBI office immediately. Do not, we repeat, DO NOT under any circumstances accept his offer of a ride on the "lifter".
If it's such a red herring then why is it at the heart of most AGW proponent's arguments?
"If you don't care about the future of the world for our children then you need to do ..."
No. You've completely misread my statements. There is no "IF" we respond to global warming. They're already doing it, with no understanding of the causes and effects in play. If AGW was "settled" science then the course of action would be determinable, the models accurate, and the predictions verified.
Actually that was state government, not federal, very different.
HAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAH
The internet was initially built by private institutions and promoted by privately held corporations.
Yes, it would be absolutely excellent if that was being done but it's not. The majority of the money being spent on AGW is in regulation of existing infrastructure.
Have you been to any of those locations? Once?
We have land reservations for visiting nature in it's true form. Among being some of the least visited locales available for tourism, aside from the particularly interesting ones, they're also some of the most tampered with lands you can visit. New species are introduced, scientific experiments are performed, radio tagging, etc. not exactly pristine unconquered lands.
You missed the hyphen for halfway-coherent and forgot the comma between coherent and freaking.
Run on sentence and unnecessary use of parathesis.
Looks good.
Caps lock is cruise control for cool.
Wrong.
And cannot start a proper sentence. The word is because, not cause, and certainly not 'cause.
Hmmm.
Extraneous punctuation around a partial proper name.
Probably because he's from another country.
Bad use of an elipsis, improper use of a semi-colon, and the word is informal.
Yes, exactly.
Capitalization required for the word Nazi and by grammatic extension Grammar.
Interesting.
Or that he was posting on a forum where by 15th edition of Grammar for Common English, and all subsequent editions, forums and internet communiques follow the rules of written dialogue. Meaning your post, and mine, are intellectual masturbation.
EarthScientist, you are correct. The scientists are not responsible for our current situation. The politicians and governments are pulling the strings. It's partial control, and has nothing to do with real science.
Kind of like clubing a baby seal though. Everyone thinks it's funny, then they realize how cruel you can be and kinda stop trusting you. Please don't review any comments I make on this site under any set of gramatical rules. My masterful control over the English language is on par with my ability to summon demons and hellspawn. Truth be told I think I could do a better job with the hellspawn than mastering a semi-colon. Of course, unlike Gopher I also wouldn't try to glorify my learnedness literary thingies, if I liked lit. I would have studied it in school.
While we are on this can someone explain to me how in the process of biological decomposition we get some of the largest helium deposits with "Fossil Fuels"? I understand radioactive decay or fusion to generate an inert elemental gas, but I am unable to name even a single natural compound with helium in it, much less a biological process, and yet almost all of the helium we get today is recovered from oil or natural gas sites? If someone could explain to me why a bunch of dinosaurs choose to be buried with helium, and could master the technology of making helium, but couldn't figure out how to recover heat from the fusion reaction? I mean they figured out cold fusion, but couldn't figure out a steam radiator to protect from the ice age. Isn't the likelyhood that oil is in fact not a fossil fuel at least worth review when generation could be easier expained through a simpler natural radio decay? Occam's Razor and what not. I mean really did the dinosaurs really use mass graves or communal latrines? The whole fossil fuel concept really needs to be revisited.
Once again, I am pro energy efficiency, not for AGW, but because I'm cheap. Rather than giving me reasons, how about someone make themselves useful and make solutions? Seriously, did these Scientist go to school and say,"Hey this field looks interesting 'Political Knob Polisher'. This says I can kiss up to liberal politicians and get paid for calling their opinions science."
Hmmm. I don't think it was. IIRC the original framework was developed by universities using government funds. No government investment = no internet.
Nope. The hyphenization of various words is different in different countries. There is no universal standard. And there should not be a comma between coherent and freaking. That would be incorrect.
Yes, I definitely parenthesize far too often. I think it is a disease of some sort. I call it parenthecitis. I hope it isn't terminal :o(.
Run on sentence? Maybe... but I'm temporarily at a loss as to how it should be properly rephrased while keeping its intending meaning intact.
Yup ;). I wasn't sure if BBCode worked on this board, so I decided to use caps instead of bolding or italicizing the words.
Both true. I used "cause" because it is part of the common internet vernacular. The "And" was simply unnecessary.
Ummm... yes. That was the point. I was attempting (apparently unsuccessfully) to say that I think he is lying through his teeth when he claims to be a scientist. I've read quite a few of his posts, and he shows a universal lack of insight into the subjects about which he is speaking (typing).
I thought about this before I posted. I don't fault people for poor grammar if English isn't their native tongue.
I could be wrong, but this guy doesn't write like someone who speaks another language; he writes like someone from hicksville who never learnt English. People who write English as a second (or third, or fourth) language have certain odd patterns in their writing. You can normally tell if they're not native English speakers.
That isn't an improper use of a semi-colon. Those are two separate sentences with related topics, which is all that is required for the use of a semi-colon.
I could have used either a period or a comma, depending on exactly how I wanted to phrase the sentence. This use is, perhaps, a little awkward, but it isn't wrong.
As for the ellipsis, this isn't formal writing. In an informal (yeah, informal. You're right) setting ellipses can be used to indicate a dramatic pause.
No. Nazi, meaning "The Nazi Party", should be capitalized. In this usage it isn't a proper noun, it is a regular noun. Just like dog, bicycle, lantern, or internet, grammar nazi is not a proper noun that indicates a unique item, but is instead a noun that describes an entire class of items. Thus it shouldn't be capitalized.
As I said before, I don't care about a few little mistakes here and there. I don't pick apart posts and comment on the misplacement of one comma, or even a dozen commas.
If it weren't for the fact that EarthScientist was claiming to be a genius who was smarter than everyone else, I wouldn't have commented on his post, even though it is terrible.
Most professionals who are based in fields requiring heavy math or logical reasoning skills could care less about punctuation. That's what grad students are for.
I've traded PMs with Earthscientist in the past, he's a pretty smart guy. As for grammar, it's the internet, it all comes down to trolling grammar eventually.
Personally I don't think that CO2 emissions are going to do it, because I don't believe in the most holy, pretentious, and sanctimonious church of AGW. I think it will be averted via other means.
That being said, if I WERE one of the faithful I'd be just as happy to avert an ice age (which would be FAR, FAR more destructive to human civilization than several degrees of warming) via AGW...unless of course my agenda was more a political one to give more governmental control over the energy sector.
Uh, they should. The whole point of formal writing is to get your point across in as clear and concise a fashion as possible. If you can't write, you can't do that.
Watching engineers, you know which ones get ahead? The ones who can write. The ones who can't are consigned to the (relatively;-)) low paying grunt jobs of the engineering circle. If you can't write a report, you're screwed. I've seen people fired because they didn't think reports were important. Oh they wrote them. They turned them in on time. But they were garbage. Language *IS* important. Any scientist who thinks it isn't is an idiot who is doomed to failure. You can't submit grant applications if you can't write.
And you know what? Yes, this is the internet. But even on a lowly message board you're *still* trying to get your point across to other people in a clear and concise fashion. EarthScientist can't do that, so he will lose every argument he gets into.
I don't understand why people can't get that through their thick skulls. It's not a matter of neurotically catching each misplaced comma, it is a matter of communicating *your side of the story* so that other people can understand it well enough to be convinced that you are correct.
If you can't communicate, you automatically forfeit the fight.
Yeah, Global warming is preventing a major disaster just few thousands of years from now. How lucky we are. Too bad that we don't live for thousands of years. Or that until then, we may see a bunch of possible scenarios both including freezing and frying...
You do not have any ability to task me to a science discussion .
I also use a secretary when any office communiques are required,as we are not specialists in writing for your science journals,as that paradigm is not our focus.
Your style of attacking the messenger tells of the process that harms anything your protocoler from hyperdimension does not feel comfortable with,and I dont suspect you would share your dream feed with us for critique.
Us old DOT Papas have worked to keep processes whole for centuries here for DOT's and Grid System .
Senor G,Do you actually have any science commentary?
There is no such thing as AGW and there is no such thing as photo-synthesis,now please try your hand at explaining anything different to a grid scientist.
This planet is warmed by the grid heating the magma,low grid energy equals ice age,high grid energy equals higher air temps,magma temps and higher electrical activity(i.e. Stronger storms)
The carbohydrates bound electrically to our oxygens just do not heat anything in that state,now do they?
And with the same amount of bonded carbons in the atmosphere in winter,why is it colder?
Have you ever traveled through Missouri and noticed that the ups and downs on the highway are 3 miles apart?
And can you explain to us grid scientists how it is that Mammoths were found in the Siberian Tundra standing up fully frozen,with viable seeds in their mouth?
This is a science site ,Senor Gopher,not an English language test site, could you please stay on topic and answer Mr. EarthScientists questions and get a return for your efforts?
When you cannot communicate with a mute ,you if you have even a smidgen of intellect,go to whatever process provides you your communication.
And by the way, the mute cannot even engage in a shouting match if they are mute and I suspect you also had trouble with the simple question,who is buried in Grants Tomb?
Dontcha think ,Senor gopher,that you look goofy enough now as to change your IP address,tisk,tisk.
Maybe a meds change,have your doctor get in touch with me for a reccomendation.