Two degree rise could spark Greenland ice sheet meltdown: WWF

November 27, 2008
The meltdown of the Greenland Ice Sheet could result in sea levels rising by up to seven metres

Graphic on a WWF study on the meltdown of Arctic ice. The WWF has warned that a less than two degree Celsius rise in global temperatures might be sufficient to spark a meltdown of the Greenland Ice Sheet and Arctic sea ice.

A less than two degree Celsius rise in global temperatures might be sufficient to spark a meltdown of the Greenland Ice Sheet and Arctic sea ice, the WWF warned in a new study released Thursday.


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MikeB
Nov 27, 2008

Rank: 2.9 / 5 (25)
Kim Carstensen, WWF Global Climate Initiative leader said: "The early meltdown of ice in the Arctic and Greenland may soon prompt further dangerous climate feedbacks accelerating warming faster and stronger than forecast. Responsible politicians cannot dare to waste another second on delaying tactics in the face of these urgent warnings from nature."

Who is Kim Carstensen? Is he/she a scientist, a lawyer or some kind of PR person? Another leader of the World Wildlife Fund said this:

"If I were reincarnated I would wish to be returned to earth as a killer virus to lower human population levels." - Prince Phillip, Duke of Edinburgh, leader of the World Wildlife Fund

Are these are the type of people we want to entrust with our childrens' futures?

Here is a comparison of Arctic Sea ice levels from the beginning of satellite records until today:

http://igloo.atmo...sh?fm=11&fd=26&fy=1979&sm=11&sd=26&sy=2008

Maybe I'm dense but I don't see the huge problem I keep hearing about. Also why has the mainstream media and physorg not covered this story?

http://www.news.c...,00.html

dirk_bruere
Nov 27, 2008

Rank: 3.1 / 5 (23)
So, exactly how long would it take for the sheet to melt when we hit the 2 degC level? I suspect the answer is "centuries". In other words, it's likely a problem for the 25th Century etc.
NeilFarbstein
Nov 27, 2008

Rank: 2.2 / 5 (21)

Radical solutions might be necessary. Orbiting sunshades. Maybe there's some way of covering the Greenland ice sheets to keep them cold. Since most of the ice that can raise sea levels is on one island, it might be possible to cool all of it. Set up dimethyl sulfoxide sprayers on Greenland to shield the ice from sunlight!!!
Give CO2 credits to the greenlanders to do that.
DMS is naturally produced by phytoplankton and it causes a haze to float over the ocean shading it from sunlight and reducing its temperature. Land plants that release DMS can be genetically engineered to make more DMS. Remember, you heard it here first!!!!!
thermodynamics
Nov 27, 2008

Rank: 4.2 / 5 (22)
PhysOrg should have covered the original paper, not a political comment by WWF. I would have been very interested in the scientific study. I am much less interested in both the WWF comments and the name calling by those commenting on the story. It seems that everything dealing with anthropogenic global warming is reduced from science to politics (even in this, supposedly, scientific web site).
k_m
Nov 27, 2008

Rank: 4.5 / 5 (13)
Where's the link to the source?
jeffsaunders
Nov 27, 2008

Rank: 3.7 / 5 (18)
Fred Blogs says that if all the ice on Earth melts the oceans will rise and drown New York. We should immediately offer our houses to all residents of New York so they have somewhere to live.

It is drivel like this that smothers science!
Noein
Nov 27, 2008

Rank: 2.9 / 5 (28)
sombody needs to stop all this fake news


Perhaps if you pray hard enough to your lord and savior, big oil, your prayers will be answered.

we know global warming is a scam


No, you denialists do not KNOW that global warming is a scam. You have RELIGIOUS FAITH that it is a scam, because there is no evidence, at all, that such a scam really exists, and there is no good reason, at all, to believe that such a scam really exists.
brant
Nov 27, 2008

Rank: 3.3 / 5 (23)
Now having an opinion that man made global warming does not exist is being a denialist... Lame....

I wonder what brought us out of the last ice age??
I wonder if the earth goes in cycles naturally??
Treetops
Nov 28, 2008

Rank: 5 / 5 (18)
It is a natural reaction to turn away from science into faith and religion when the complexity of daily life exceeds the rational capabilities of some. Ignorance to see the big picture and the ridiculing of critics led to the world largest financial crisis with consequences that are not yet known. The same ideology is at work here. Lets discuss science and ignore these toxic ideologists.
vlam67
Nov 28, 2008

Rank: 1 / 5 (10)
I sincerely curse 999 generational ancestors of who decided humans are Homo Sapiens!
Bob_Kob
Nov 28, 2008

Rank: 2.9 / 5 (17)
Its good if the ice melts, we'll have more land to use.
RAL
Nov 28, 2008

Rank: 3.3 / 5 (21)
More fear mongering and alarmism from the politically motivated AGW crowd. Give us power or the world will be destroyed. This stuff is on the same level as Creationism except "Creation Science" does not propose to destroy the world economy in pursuit of its irrational goals.
Suzu
Nov 28, 2008

Rank: 2.8 / 5 (17)
Its good if the ice melts, we'll have more land to use.


I hope you were joking.

If you were serious, you are the example of what is wrong with this world today.
nonoice
Nov 28, 2008

Rank: 2.3 / 5 (13)
@MikeB:
The problem is not winter ice cover:
Look here at the ice cover in the end of the summer.
The problem is a 'little' more visible here.
Selecting data that fits your own theories is not the proper way to discuss these kinds of things.

http://igloo.atmo...sh?fm=09&fd=26&fy=1979&sm=09&sd=26&sy=2008

Can you still say:" I don't see the huge problem I keep hearing about."
direct url working url:
http://tinyurl.com/629868
Velanarris
Nov 28, 2008

Rank: 3.4 / 5 (20)
@MikeB:
The problem is not winter ice cover:
Look here at the ice cover in the end of the summer.
The problem is a 'little' more visible here.
Selecting data that fits your own theories is not the proper way to discuss these kinds of things.


There's the problem. It's a "little" more visible here, but if you look at human records from the industrial revolution until now, it's not visible at all.

Without a proper frame of reference all data is cherry picked.
lengould100
Nov 28, 2008

Rank: 2.4 / 5 (17)
How many of you commenters above have the brains or work ethic to get your "thoughts" published in a reviewed scientific journal? None? I thought so.
MikeB
Nov 28, 2008

Rank: 3.3 / 5 (16)
@MikeB:
The problem is not winter ice cover:
Look here at the ice cover in the end of the summer.

Selecting data that fits your own theories is not the proper way to discuss these kinds of things."

Sure last summer did have less ice in the Arctic, and the Polar Bears ate well. Many seals were slaughtered. Still the total sea ice of the Earth is not at low levels. The Anomaly graph puts things in better perspective. Look at this anomaly graph:

http://arctic.atm...rend.jpg

I think it illustrates the cyclical rise and fall of sea ice. It is funny that every summer, everyone is worried about the sea ice in the Arctic, and every winter we see the media scares about ice melting in the Antarctic. I repeat, this is a non-problem.
DeadCorpse
Nov 28, 2008

Rank: 3.4 / 5 (15)
Over the last 150 years, global temp has increased 1 degree. In order to raise the global temp 2 more degrees would therefore require another 300 years assuming the effect is scalar.

Looking at interglacial trends, this puts us right about when the next Ice Age should start. And we'd still be some 8-10 degrees below historic mean of interglacial maximums.

Further, the interior of Greenlands ice sheet is thickening.

http://www.univer...growing/

As this thickening continues, the ice will push outwards. Like's it's been doing since the glacier formed.

Same for Antarctica.

Physorg needs to stop editorializing and stick to real science.
Ferretman
Nov 28, 2008

Rank: 4.3 / 5 (17)
STICK TO SCIENCE GUYS!

I get enough of this political nonsense in the main stream media-I'd like to just get scientific *facts* here, please.
Velanarris
Nov 28, 2008

Rank: 3.4 / 5 (17)
How many of you commenters above have the brains or work ethic to get your "thoughts" published in a reviewed scientific journal? None? I thought so.
Hey len, start linking your published papers.
JoeDazzle
Nov 28, 2008

Rank: 2.7 / 5 (12)
The WWF is an agent for the Bildenbergs and the New World Order. Of course they want you believe all this fear mongering. Fear is how they have controlled the society! How on earth this baloney can go on for so long is incredible. Please stop the WWF whackjob news.
Doug_Loss
Nov 28, 2008

Rank: 4.1 / 5 (18)
Since when should we care what the World Wrestling Federation thinks about the global climate?
JohnGalt
Nov 28, 2008

Rank: 3.7 / 5 (15)
I agree with others who have questioned why there's no link to the study. I'm not interested in the opinion of the WWF (World Wrestling Federation). The latest data I've see shows the artic sea ice recovering at a record rate. I've also seen reports that Greenland's ice cover is increasing in overall mass.
Velanarris
Nov 28, 2008

Rank: 3.5 / 5 (13)
I agree with others who have questioned why there's no link to the study. I'm not interested in the opinion of the WWF (World Wrestling Federation). The latest data I've see shows the artic sea ice recovering at a record rate. I've also seen reports that Greenland's ice cover is increasing in overall mass.


It's because ice sheets, ice shelves, sea ice, and glaciers are linked to precipitation, not to temperature. Known science that's overlooked by the Church of AGW.
GrayMouser
Nov 28, 2008

Rank: 2.7 / 5 (7)
@MikeB:
The problem is not winter ice cover:
Look here at the ice cover in the end of the summer.
The problem is a 'little' more visible here.
Selecting data that fits your own theories is not the proper way to discuss these kinds of things.

http://igloo.atmo...sh?fm=09&fd=26&fy=1979&sm=09&sd=26&sy=2008

Can you still say:" I don't see the huge problem I keep hearing about."
direct url working url:
http://tinyurl.com/629868


Try:
http://igloo.atmo...sh?fm=09&fd=26&fy=1979&sm=11&sd=26&sy=2008
GrayMouser
Nov 28, 2008

Rank: 3.8 / 5 (10)
Since when should we care what the World Wrestling Federation thinks about the global climate?


Hey! That's my line!
deepsand
Nov 28, 2008

Rank: 3.4 / 5 (10)
Wow, this is downright scary when you think about it. I have a feeling we are much to late now to do anythingto stop it.

jess

SPAM ALERT
NeilFarbstein
Nov 29, 2008

Rank: 1 / 5 (10)
Fred Blogs says that if all the ice on Earth melts the oceans will rise and drown New York. We should immediately offer our houses to all residents of New York so they have somewhere to live.
Nobody will seriously enetration housing refugees from New York in their houses but you can count on painfully high insurance bills if it does take place.

RJ63
Nov 30, 2008

Rank: 4.3 / 5 (10)
I respect the scientists and their warnings about GW and I would be interested in their explanations of why past climate shift causes are not the same as present climate shifts or trends. It's the main missing info for me.
GrayMouser
Nov 30, 2008

Rank: 4.4 / 5 (7)
I respect the scientists and their warnings about GW and I would be interested in their explanations of why past climate shift causes are not the same as present climate shifts or trends. It's the main missing info for me.


It's not global warming any more. It's "Climate Change".

And the difference between now and before is that we are here and can measure it.
Doug_Huffman
Dec 01, 2008

Rank: 2.7 / 5 (6)
The BOG collective's conspiracy of ignorance only masquerades as common sense.

Prepare to be assimilated by the BOG. Resistance to Obamination is futile. BOG Brother is watching.
lengould100
Dec 01, 2008

Rank: 3 / 5 (5)
Let's see some published science from the Church of AGW.
Quantum_Conundrum
Dec 01, 2008

Rank: 2.9 / 5 (8)
The BOG collective's conspiracy of ignorance only masquerades as common sense.

Prepare to be assimilated by the BOG. Resistance to Obamination is futile. BOG Brother is watching.


Isn't it insane how all of a sudden, in a matter of like 5 years, a guy goes from being a nobody to being elected president, and suddenly all the liberal people are practically worshipping the guy like he's the messiah or something?

====

If global warming alarmists really want to do something "green", they can lobby for the government to give tax incentives to energy companies for making massive solar power arrays in the plains states and desert southwest. I calculate that ~1250 solar towers like those in Spain could power all the homes in America all day long plus about 1 hour worth of power saved up for after the sun sets. If they made ~12,500 of such towers, it could power all of the industry in the country in addition to the homes and offices.

This is of course a massive project, but hey, they just gave almost 2 trillion dollars away to a bunch of idiots who lost everything the first time. Surely if our government has no problem burning money, or giving it away to foreign nations that want to see us dead, then they would have no problem giving loans and tax incentives to energy companies for these projects. Plus it would put a lot of unemployed people to work.
morpheus2012
Dec 01, 2008

Rank: 3.5 / 5 (8)
watch video evidece

its explain how the global warming scam works
feear mongering for more taaxation and control

http://www.youtub...Tb7vTamY
morpheus2012
Dec 01, 2008

Rank: 3.5 / 5 (8)
even better video

explaning the global warming scam with
multifield aproach

http://www.youtub...PV01uyRs
GrayMouser
Dec 01, 2008

Rank: 4.4 / 5 (5)
If global warming alarmists really want to do something "green", they can lobby for the government to give tax incentives to energy companies for making massive solar power arrays in the plains states and desert southwest. I calculate that ~1250 solar towers like those in Spain could power all the homes in America all day long plus about 1 hour worth of power saved up for after the sun sets. If they made ~12,500 of such towers, it could power all of the industry in the country in addition to the homes and offices.

This is of course a massive project, but hey, they just gave almost 2 trillion dollars away to a bunch of idiots who lost everything the first time. Surely if our government has no problem burning money, or giving it away to foreign nations that want to see us dead, then they would have no problem giving loans and tax incentives to energy companies for these projects. Plus it would put a lot of unemployed people to work.


The first thing they would have to do is outlaw lawsuits, by the greens, attempting to block the construction of the power generating plants AND the distribution lines.
Egnite
Dec 02, 2008

Rank: 3.8 / 5 (6)
Anyone else get the impression some of the world elite have their fingers in Physorgs pie? Why else would they run a story about a federations opinion which is unrelated to science or even wildlife.
pantsonfire
Dec 02, 2008

Rank: 4.3 / 5 (6)
Consider that it has taken 18,000 years to melt 60% of the ice from the last ice age. Some simple math should give a pretty good idea of how irresponsible it is to claim a rise of "several meters" anytime in the near future. There are also physical considerations like the landscape of Greenland where mountains can trap the ice flow. You can also add in the fact that even if the entire of the Arctic sea ice melted, it would only contribute an minuscule sea level rise.

This is just another example of using emotion to win an argument rather than facts.
Rank 2.8 /5 (100 votes)
Tags

ice sheet, sea ice, arctic sea, meltdown, rise, climate, global, degree
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