Antarctic ice loss vaster, faster than thought: study
November 22, 2009
The shore of Deception Island in Antarctica, in 2008. The East Antarctic icesheet, once seen as largely unaffected by global warming, has lost billions of tonnes of ice since 2006 and could boost sea levels in the future, according to a new study.
The East Antarctic icesheet, once seen as largely unaffected by global warming, has lost billions of tonnes of ice since 2006 and could boost sea levels in the future, according to a new study.
Published Sunday in Nature Geoscience, the same study shows that the smaller but less stable West Antarctic icesheet is also shedding significant mass.
Scientists worry that rising global temperatures could trigger a rapid disintegration of West Antarctica, which holds enough frozen water to push up the global ocean watermark by about five metres (16 feet).
In 2007 the UN Intergovernmental Panel for Climate Change (IPCC) predicted sea levels would rise 18 to 59 centimetres (7.2 to 23.2 inches) by 2100, but this estimate did not factor in the potential impact of crumbling icesheets in Greenland and Antarctica.
Today many of the same scientist say that even if heat-trapping CO2 emissions are curtailed, the ocean watermark is more likely to go up by nearly a metre, enough to render several small island nations unlivable and damage fertile deltas home to hundreds of millions.
More than 190 nations gather in Copenhagen next month to hammer out a global climate deal to curb greenhouse gases and help poor countries cope with its consequences.
University of Texas professor Jianli Chen and colleagues analysed nearly seven years of data on ocean-icesheet interaction in Antarctica.
Covering the period up January 2009, the data was collected by the twin GRACE satellites, which detect mass flows in the ocean and polar regions by measuring changes in Earth's gravity field.
Consistent with earlier findings based on different methods, they found that West Antarctica dumped, on average, about 132 billion tonnes of ice into the sea each year, give or take 26 billion tonnes.
They also found for the first time that East Antarctica -- on the Eastern Hemisphere side of the continent -- is likewise losing mass, mostly in coastal regions, at a rate of about 57 billion tonnes annually.
The margin or error, they cautioned, is almost as large as the estimate, meaning ice loss could be a little as a few billion tonnes or more than 100.
Up to now, scientists had thought that East Antarctica was in "balance," meaning that it accumulated as much mass and it gave off, perhaps a bit more.
"Acceleration of ice loss in recent years over the entire continent is thus indicated," the authors conclude. "Antarctica may soon be contributing significantly more to global sea level rise."
Another study published last week in the journal Nature reported an upwardly-revised figure for Antarctic temperatures during prior "interglacials", warm periods such as our own that have occurred roughly every 100,000 years.
During the last interglacial which peaked some 128,000 years ago, called the Eemian Period, temperatures in the region were probably six degree Celsius (10.8 degrees Fahrenheit) higher than today, which is about 3 C (5.4 C) above previous estimates, the study said.
The findings suggest that the region may be more sensitive than scientists thought to greenhouse gas concentrations in the atmosphere that were roughly equivalent to present day levels.
During the Eemian, sea levels were five-to-seven metres higher than today.
(c) 2009 AFP
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Nov 22, 2009
Rank: 2.9 / 5 (15)
And exactly how was it that such "roughly equivalent" greenhouse gas levels got in the atmosphere back then? I don't recall that there was an industrial civilisation around then to do the job. :-/
Nov 22, 2009
Rank: 3.1 / 5 (16)
Doesn't this mean that their so-called "study" is totally worthless?
Nov 22, 2009
Rank: 2.8 / 5 (17)
350 years ago the Cape Castle was right on the waterfront, today it is about 2km's away from the sea, standing proud overlooking the present Cape harbour. Sea levels rising? Tell me another one!
Nov 22, 2009
Rank: 2.7 / 5 (6)
http://www.google...9C441LG0
Nov 22, 2009
Rank: 3.6 / 5 (17)
To answer VanderMerwe's question, yes, carbon dioxide has fluctuated dramatically during the last 500 million years. Causes include volcanic eruptions and changes in the carbon cycle.
However, the current pace of CO2 accumulation in the atmosphere has no historical counterpart.
Hi Loodt,
The IPCC is the world's body of scientists. It is not tiny group. The organization represents the prevailing consenus that you presumably want to dispute.
If you want to dispute, you are going to do better place prejudice on display ...
Hi Jonnyboy,
The study isn't worthless, but the size of the confidence intervals mean that one cannot draw strong conclusions from it. Essentially this study is a call to do more research.
Nov 22, 2009
Rank: 3.3 / 5 (11)
Yet beginning with the headline and continuing through the story, we get the usual dramatic 'we're all going to die' melodramatics that seems to continually eminate from this field.
The bottom line is indeed 'more research is needed', not 'vaster and faster' and here's the worst case scenario, omg omg omg. This isn't science, it's politics pure and simple, and increasingly recognized as such.
Nov 22, 2009
Rank: 2.7 / 5 (11)
Of the ice over land, how far up will the mantle rise when the weight of the ice is off of it. Think Duluth, MN in the USA after the glacier retreated there and the evidence of the mantle upshifting once the glacier retreated.
The hyperbole in some of these reports is getting tough to ignore...
Nov 22, 2009
Rank: 3.2 / 5 (6)
So I guess we don't need to worry about Antarctica flooding, which is admittedly a great weight off my chest. But mantle upshifting in the antarctic can only make things worse for those of us living elsewhere. The water has to go somewhere after all, and not all of us can take comfort from the rebound from a local disappearing glacier.
Nov 22, 2009
Rank: 3 / 5 (10)
Keep in mind, the Goddard Weather group was caught massively fudging data to prove October 2008 was hottest on record (false)
Since it is no where near unanimous, and since the Brits proved they have a systematised system, gov't funded at that, to discount,discredit, or ignore ANY data to the contrary, and outright lie and fake data to prove their agenda...
I tend to doubt the paid and colluding scientist out to promote a unilateral falsehood.
How many other 'scientists' involved will not be known for a while, since the fellow conspirators in the media and governments are hiding in ratholes hoping it will blow over before they get caught...
Luckily... The inter net is here to actually have their covers blown.
Please, don't defend the 'science' to us. Like the Canadian ice marker 'unknowingly' had been moving for years, or the confabulation about the polar bears dying on an iceberg at sea...only spotting distance away.
Nov 23, 2009
Rank: 2.8 / 5 (10)
Nov 23, 2009
Rank: 3 / 5 (8)
Nov 23, 2009
Rank: 3 / 5 (8)
Nov 23, 2009
Rank: 3 / 5 (5)
http://blogs.edf....emps.gif
Nov 23, 2009
Rank: 2.3 / 5 (6)
More information please. You should not expect anyone else reading your comment to know where Cape Castle or Cape harbour is. So your claims cannot be verified.
Nov 23, 2009
Rank: 3 / 5 (2)
Nov 23, 2009
Rank: 2.3 / 5 (9)
The UK CRU revelations have impeached GW-ists credibility. Science is not a body of knowledge but is a way of thinking. Unfalsifiable statements are not scientific.
Nov 23, 2009
Rank: 2.4 / 5 (7)
I hear all about this "melting ice" and there should of course be an immediate rise in ocean levels to account to account for the "law of conservation of energy" which requires an "immediate effect" it cannot be a "lagging effect".
Nov 23, 2009
Rank: 2.5 / 5 (8)
Nov 23, 2009
Rank: 4 / 5 (4)
Nov 23, 2009
Rank: 3.3 / 5 (6)
Cape Town is one of the world's top 10 tourist destinations, and you haven't heard of it. Must be a very cloistered life you lead!
Use Google Earth, and you will see the Castle, pentagon shape, at the foot of Table Mountain. (Ever heard of that feature?)
In the Golden Acre, half-way between the Castle and the present day harbour they uncovered old clay pipes, and other seashore features that were used to replenish ships; it is open for view by the general public.
Nov 23, 2009
Rank: 4.3 / 5 (6)
Helio: There were only two Cape Castles on offer. Google is a wonderful tool for answering questions like yours. Learn to use it. :-)
Nov 23, 2009
Rank: 3 / 5 (2)
There are 2 factors at play here:
-sea level riseS and falls
-Continental shift due to plate techtonics and movement due to release of Ice mass melt.
You know that the south of England is sinking and Scotland is rising, due to the mass of ice that covered Scotland melting later. And Sweden is rising, see reason for wells and waterlevels dropping.
The movement of the Cape and surrounds relative to the sea can be attribued to the same two reasons. And the one side of the Cape Castle was actually used as a port, build so that the guys in the Castle could escape as neccessary if required. It is above the mean sea level of the sea now.
Also check the Dutch report on seaward defences for the 21st century prepared 2008/9. The dykes have to be made taller for two reasons: Sea level rise, and landmass sinking!
Nov 23, 2009
Rank: 2.3 / 5 (6)
Nov 23, 2009
Rank: 3 / 5 (4)
"During the last interglacial which peaked some 128,000 years ago, called the Eemian Period, temperatures in the region were probably six degree Celsius (10.8 degrees Fahrenheit) higher than today, which is about 3 C (5.4 C) above previous estimates, the study said."
What does this say about Anthropogenic CO2 causing the current 'global warming'? Not too many power stations or cars belching out CO2 in those days I dare say... :))
Clearly, if anyone here IS a scientist, it must give you pause.
Gents, don't just debate this here, if you want to see a study of contradictions and contra-indications, go to the (putative) most authoritative article of all, the IPCC Technical Summary of Working Group I, the group dealing with the basic scientific evidence.
Forget the rest, they are all dependent on the basic science.
Read it and weep.
Nov 23, 2009
Rank: 2.5 / 5 (8)
Nov 23, 2009
Rank: 2 / 5 (8)
Nov 23, 2009
Rank: 3.7 / 5 (3)
It's not a case of 'trusting'.
I read the IPCC report because that is the Holy Bible of the Anthropogenic Climate Change religion.
To understand a belief system you MUST read the source material.
That is why I read it.
And the summary findings are listed in the last eleven pages of that report (pp 81 to 91). It's not a lot to read and I strongly recommend everyone with an interest in 'Global Warming' to read at least those.
As I said before, they left me weeping.
I cannot believe that such contradictory statements can be ratified by scientists.
But don't listen to me, don't listen to ANYBODY!
Make up your own mind, read those 11 pages (at least)!
Nov 23, 2009
Rank: 5 / 5 (2)
Page 81, TS.6 Robust Findings and Key Uncertainties.
TS 6.1 Changes in Human and Natural Drivers of Climate.
Robust Findings:
Current atmospheric concentrations of CO2 and CH4,
and their associated positive radiative forcing, far exceed those determined from ice core measurements spanning the last 650,000 years. {6.4} -
Unquote.
Now look above in this article, quote -
The findings suggest that the region may be more sensitive than scientists thought to greenhouse gas concentrations in the atmosphere that were roughly equivalent to present day levels. -
unquote.
So EITHER the IPCC finding is true and the author of this article is incorrect, OR this article's author is correct and the IPCC report is... ??
Nov 23, 2009
Rank: 5 / 5 (4)
http://www.physor...096.html
I wonder how much sheet ice has accumulated during that time?
How many quadrillion tons of sheet ice are present now and what percentage of it melted since 2006? Is there still more sheet ice than there was in 2000? Is this just a normal flux? Or, is it the end of the world?
Nov 23, 2009
Rank: 3.7 / 5 (3)
A very arrogant answer from you (& vanderMerwe following). I did google it & found what I thought was possibly the building you refer to. And yes it was in Cape Town, which of course I have heard of.
Can I make the more general point for you that this is an international forum & it is common (even polite) to presume that local landmarks are not world renown? It is entirely reasonable for me to ask for more information and not suffer abuse in return.
Nov 24, 2009
Rank: 1 / 5 (2)
Ladies & gentlemen.
Let us imagine that our very audience are children.
I would like to introduce mine more extensively to learning & understanding. The issues that face us can potentially cause a large amount of avoidable suffering. OUR children need to be part of this understanding now. They may already know more about how to solve this problem than we thought. Time to listen to innocent wisdom or continue playing with dangerous toys?
Nov 24, 2009
Rank: 3 / 5 (6)
Please spend 30 min looking at my earlier video reference. Do NOT BUY INTO THIS HOAX.
Raritas: These same people "so concerned" for our children, banned PERFECTLY SAFE DDT, so 40,000,000 children would die from malaria instead of 2M. They don't care about our children. [ban reversed after 40 yrs - finally.]
Nov 27, 2009
Rank: 1 / 5 (1)
It was thought that the ice sheets were riding on a thin layer of liquid water. The question was why is the water between the ground and the glacier liquid? The global warming answer was heat from the surface was just now reaching the bottom of the glacier and melting the ice.
Another was volcanic activity was warming the land and a third, which was many not have been mentioned, which I just thought of, is pressure. Are the tones of pressure from the glacier sufficient to create the lubricating water?
For the last two reasons, atm warming plays no part, but they do seem to make some sense. Especially since liquid water lakes have been found in Antarctica.
Nov 28, 2009
Rank: 2.3 / 5 (3)
Nov 28, 2009
Rank: 2.3 / 5 (3)
Why are people suddenly catching fish that never ventured above the California/Oregon border off the Columbia river? Animal and plant ranges shifting, the tree line's for yew trees shifting higher in elevation. The list just goes on and on.
The essence of a rebuttal isn't to just wave your hands in the air and claim everyone is lying. There are too many scientists involved and too many thousands of verified reports to make that credible. You must come up with an alternate explanation for all the data.
Nov 28, 2009
Rank: 1 / 5 (1)
How did the Vikings settle Greenland for hundreds of years with less atm CO2 than today?
Nov 29, 2009
Rank: not rated yet
That probably doesn't qualify as an alternate explanation for what is happening now. I do hope your not suggesting that temps were as warm as today's anytime in the last 1000 years. We have very good data from multiple sources demonstrating this isn't so. Or are you waving your hands and claiming that all that data doesn't count...
Nov 29, 2009
Rank: 3 / 5 (2)
How can one trust such data?
The real casualty is not being able to trust scientists. I personally witnessed John Anderson from Harvard make a political pitch at a CalCon in Logan, UT. This was a conference about radiometric calibration of earth observing satellites, not AGW.
Unless there is new data, the NAS said any temperature reconstruction beyond 400 years ago is highly uncertain.
Nov 29, 2009
Rank: not rated yet
http://books.nap....p;page=4
Nov 30, 2009
Rank: 1 / 5 (1)
Nov 30, 2009
Rank: 1 / 5 (1)
Nov 30, 2009
Rank: 1 / 5 (1)
1 billion tonnes melting gives you 1.69 cubic miles/137854500 square miles of ocean - 6.47 X 10(
Nov 30, 2009
Rank: 1 / 5 (1)
Nov 30, 2009
Rank: 1 / 5 (2)
manbearpig is coming to get you
wohoho
Dec 05, 2009
Rank: 5 / 5 (1)
Sitting around having pissing contests about who can be the most self-righteous accomplishes nothing.
It is all irrelevant anyway. It doesn't matter if AGW is real or not. We are breaking our planet. We must move to renewable resources or sizable parts of the human race will die. Whether its from drowning by rising seas, poisoning from polluted air/water, or starving from lack of food, dead is still dead.
So forget the debate. We must get real about what truly matters, and that is moving away from carbon based energy sources to renewable and sustainable resources like wind and solar.