Climate scientists underwhelmed by Copenhagen Accord

December 20, 2009 by Marlowe Hood
Buildings are engulfed in haze in Wuhan, central China's Hubei province

Enlarge

An aerial view of buildings standing out amid haze engulfing Wuhan, central China's Hubei province on December 3. Top climate scientists have said the eleventh-hour political deal hammered out at UN talks in Copenhagen falls perilously short of what is needed to stave off catastrophic global warming.

Top climate scientists said Saturday that the eleventh-hour political deal hammered out at UN talks in Copenhagen falls perilously short of what is needed to stave off catastrophic global warming.

What many had hoped would be a planet-saving treaty locking major economies into strong commitments to shrink their carbon footprints came out as a three-page political accord with key numbers yet to be filled in.

"The easiest yardstick to evaluate is the two degree target," said Andrew Watson, a professor at the University of East Anglia in Britain.

"This agreement will almost certainly not be sufficient to enable that target to be met -- legally-binding tough limits in place over the next few years would be needed for that," he told AFP by email.

The Nobel-winning UN science panel warned in a benchmark 2007 report that if average temperatures increase by more than 2.0 degrees Celsius (3.6 degrees Fahrenheit) on pre-industrial levels, it could lead to runaway climate change and severe impact.

We have already travelled 0.7 C along that path.

More recent studies suggest the planet could hot up by a devastating 6.0 C (10.8 F), and that sea levels could rise by more than a metre (3.25 feet) by 2100 unless we slash CO2 concentrations in the Earth's atmosphere.

Such a hothouse scenario would create hundreds of millions of environmental refugees.

"Strictly speaking, it is a disappointment. We expected more," French climate scientist Herve Le Treut said of the new accord.

"What we have seen is the diverging interests of nation states and the planet."

Part of the problem is that most of the key mitigation targets have yet to be finalised.

"There is not much here to analyse. The accord doesn't have specific emissions targets for industrial countries, it doesn't have deviation from 'business as usual' goals for developing countries," said Alden Meyer of the Washington-based Union of Concerned Scientists.

"If you look at what is likely going to be listed in the annexes, you are going to be well over a 3.0 C," he told AFP. "The accord also fails to set a target for 'peak year' for global CO2 emissions, ideally around 2015.

"It is very critical that you get a peak and a decline starting soon," he added.

UN climate chief Yvo de Boer made much the same point in closing out the 13-day marathon meeting: "The opportunity to actually make it into the scientific window of opportunity is getting smaller and smaller."

The deal does contain a few silver linings, the scientists said.

"At least it may signal that there is some willingness to take action, so that we might have a hope of limiting the rise to 3.0 C - 4.0 C, and avoid the really unknown territory that lies beyond that," Watson said.

Le Treut agreed.

"It is too early to say it is a failure," he told AFP. "The scientific community had set the bar very high: halving global CO2 emissions by mid-century will be very tough."

That goal, embraced by rich nations, was dropped from early drafts of the accord due to objections from China and India, the world's number one and number three carbon emitters.

"From the evidence of the last two weeks, I would say we have a heck of a long way still to go if, as a species, we are to avoid the fate that usually afflicts populations that outgrow their resources," said Watson.

(c) 2009 AFP

2.7 /5 (18 votes)  

Filter


Move the slider to adjust rank threshold, so that you can hide some of the comments.


Display comments: newest first

antialias
Dec 20, 2009

Rank: 3.4 / 5 (8)
from China and India, the world's number one and number three carbon emitters.


One should note that this is a "TOTAL quantity of carbon emitted". China and India have a lot more people than anyone else. Number one and two carbon emitters PER PERSON are the United States and Europe - this is the relevant measure. So before we start to have a grudge about carbon emissions against China and India we should try to straighten up our own acts.

it's pretty hypocritical to ask others to do something we are not prepared to do ourselves (even if we were to cut down on carbon emissions to the full extent of the Kyoto Protocol we'll STILL be emitting more per person than they currently do.)
marjon
Dec 20, 2009

Rank: 3.5 / 5 (11)
The Nobel-winning UN science panel

Given the recent award of a Nobel peace prize to someone who has admittedly done little or nothing to earn such a prize, making a such a statement about the IPCC does little to inspire confidence.
frajo
Dec 20, 2009

Rank: 2.7 / 5 (9)
One should note that this is a "TOTAL quantity of carbon emitted". China and India have a lot more people than anyone else. Number one and two carbon emitters PER PERSON are the United States and Europe - this is the relevant measure.
There is another measure which is - at least - equally relevant: the emissions per person integrated over the last two centuries.
The dominant minorities who in the past have had their pleasure exploiting the rest of the planet now ought to pay the bill.
frajo
Dec 20, 2009

Rank: 2.6 / 5 (5)
Given the recent award of a Nobel peace prize to someone who has admittedly done little or nothing to earn such a prize
I wouldn't use the word "recent" as it happened 36 years ago.
marjon
Dec 20, 2009

Rank: 3.4 / 5 (10)
Given the recent award of a Nobel peace prize to someone who has admittedly done little or nothing to earn such a prize
I wouldn't use the word "recent" as it happened 36 years ago.

Obama "my accomplishments are slight" was awarded the prize this year.
As for the 'dominant' minorities, how many of the 'oppressed majority' would prefer a return to the lifestyles of 200 years ago? They have enjoyed none of the advances produced by the 'dominant minority'?
Why have so many of the 'oppressed majority' sought to join the 'dominant minority' by emigrating?
Doug_Huffman
Dec 20, 2009

Rank: 2.7 / 5 (7)
Ah ha! Integrating timewise, finally we're getting somewhere! Another concept that will underscore the folly of green-ness is integrating industry-wise. It is folly to commit the pollution of another layer of infrastructure to build green-cars. God damn the Obamination.
Ronan
Dec 20, 2009

Rank: 2.3 / 5 (3)
The planet's apathetic; it couldn't care less where CO2, N2O, and CH4 are coming from, or who's to blame for their release. Once it's in the atmosphere, regardless of source it'll all have the same effect.

And Doug Huffman...I don't quite follow? I mean, yes, it'd be resource intensive to put the infrastructure for a non-fossil-fuel based economy (or, for that matter, even transportation system) in place, but once it's set up the costs'll likely be comparable to those currently required to keep our fossil-fuel infrastructure up and running. We just need to make that initial investment; can't accumulate if you don't speculate.
croghan26
Dec 21, 2009

Rank: 1 / 5 (2)
The Nobel-winning UN science panel

Given the recent award of a Nobel peace prize to someone who has admittedly done little or nothing to earn such a prize, making a such a statement about the IPCC does little to inspire confidence.


I can not be described as an overwhelming fan of Obama - but about his Peace Prize .... remember that Nelson Mandela still lived in a very apartheid S. Africa when he gained his Nobel. It did not end until the next year. Give Obama (and the Nobel committee) a break.
marjon
Dec 21, 2009

Rank: 3.7 / 5 (3)

I can not be described as an overwhelming fan of Obama - but about his Peace Prize .... remember that Nelson Mandela still lived in a very apartheid S. Africa when he gained his Nobel. It did not end until the next year. Give Obama (and the Nobel committee) a break.

Why? Mandela at least irritated the government enough to put him in jail for 'life'.
Obama had only held office for a few days before the nominations ended. What had he done except write books and be elected president?
VeIanarris
Dec 23, 2009

Rank: 3 / 5 (4)

Obama had only held office for a few days before the nominations ended. What had he done except write books and be elected president?

The only answer is that he must be the Anti-Christ. 6x6x6 is 216, and Obama was born on August 4th, the 216nth day of the year (1961, the year that is the same backwards)....It's in Revelations people!
Phelankell
Dec 23, 2009

Rank: 1 / 5 (1)
I can not be described as an overwhelming fan of Obama - but about his Peace Prize .... remember that Nelson Mandela still lived in a very apartheid S. Africa when he gained his Nobel. It did not end until the next year. Give Obama (and the Nobel committee) a break.

Nelson Mandela didn't win the award then continue to commit troops in the tens of thousands. Aside from being black, there is no parallel between the two.

As an aside here, if 50% of the warming is natural(IPCC AR4), and we're climbing at a rate of 0.7 degrees per decade(pick a source, any source) that would mean we're already screwed and are going to die if the predictions and statements of AGW theory are accurate.

CO2 is stated to have an atmospheric halflife of 600 years.

CO2 that's in the atmosphere now will already warm us up past 2 degrees, even if we shut down everything that produced CO2 and all committed suicide, there would be 3 decades to go, rather than 2. Or there's more to the story.
bluehigh
Dec 26, 2009

Rank: 3 / 5 (2)
If Andrew Watson or anyone from the University of East Anglia tells me it is raining outside, I would have to go see for myself.

How can a totally discredited institution still be referenced for comment? and by email of all things!

Close the UEA school of Environmental Science down and please Mr Watson return your PHD and get a haircut you hippy freak. Then go shave a whale with your commie pals and let scientists with integrity do research.

You Watson and your comrades have brought science into disrepute and are nothing but a disgrace.

Better go take my medication?
prattner
Dec 26, 2009

Rank: 5 / 5 (2)
bluehigh:

No, you don't need medication because it is normal to get bent out of shape when fed a pack of lies. These climate "scientists" were caught red-handed fabricated data. There seems to be little shame, and they are just can't understand why the nations of the world were unwilling to turn over their sovereignty and wealth to the UN based on the claims of alarmists like Andrew Watson.

Copenhagen failed because everyone finally saw the Emperor naked. And not a moment too soon!
operator
Dec 27, 2009

Rank: 1 / 5 (2)
comments from the likes of bluehigh an prattner do seem to illustrate the generally poor level of science education in the states, where ID is accepted in schools, where climate scientists like jim hansen are giving armed escort in texas because of death threats, where anti-abortionists murder in the name of a christian life loving god. i so glad i live in a secular country with a semi decent level of state education for young people. the rift between the hysterical noise about east anglias CRU from the states shows the rift between US rightwing religious nutjobs an the tolerent attitude of the rest of the planet.
bluehigh and prattner, yeah just carry on isolating yourselves, watch as your position is so at odds with the rest of the people on this planet.
Phelankell
Dec 28, 2009

Rank: 5 / 5 (1)
shows the rift between US rightwing religious nutjobs an the tolerent attitude of the rest of the planet.


Sorry, idiot doesn't follow a political party line, nor does it follow religious institutional lines.

Dubious research is dubious research. While the CRU issue doesn't show all of AGW science to be wrong, it does expose that the majority of the data on which the initial premise is based was manipulated.

And the US is a secular nation. England has its own state sponsored church.
peteone1
Jan 08, 2010

Rank: 1 / 5 (1)
New evidence that AGW is full of, shall we say..."hot air" :-)

ice warning as temperatures hit NEW winter low of -almost as cold as the South Pole.
http://www.telegr....2C.html
peteone1
Jan 08, 2010

Rank: 1 / 5 (1)
((climate scientists like jim hansen are giving armed escort in texas because of death threats))
Death threats should never be part of a passionate debate, but I hardly think that issuing an opinion that Hansen should “get the death penalty” qualifies as a death threat. And since you mention “death threats” it might interest you to know that secular Leftists are very good at issuing death threats at those of us whom they vehemently disagree with.

http://www.telegr...ial.html
peteone1
Jan 08, 2010

Rank: 1 / 5 (1)
((climate scientists like jim hansen are giving armed escort in texas because of death threats))
Death threats should never be part of a debate, but I hardly think that issuing an opinion that Hansen should "get the death penalty" opinion that Hansen should "get the death penalty" qualifies as a death threat. And since you mention "death threats" it might interest you to know that secular leftwing loons are very good at issuing death threats at those of us whom they disagree with...

http://www.telegr...ial.html
Rank 2.7 /5 (18 votes)
Related Stories
Relevant PhysicsForums posts
  • Discrepancy between oxygen and carbon-dioxide levels
    created23 hours ago
  • where gems are found in the world
    createdFeb 09, 2012
  • Wind Waves in Reservoir ~ Wind run-up and Wind set-up
    createdFeb 08, 2012
  • Balance of oxygen in the atmosphere
    createdFeb 01, 2012
  • The case for a methanol-based economy
    createdJan 30, 2012
  • Weather in a rotating cylinder
    createdJan 25, 2012
  • More from Physics Forums - Earth

More news stories

NASA sees wide-eyed cyclone Jasmine

Cyclone Jasmine's eye has opened wider on NASA satellite imagery, as it moves through the Southern Pacific Ocean.

Space & Earth / Earth Sciences

created 3 hours ago | popularity not rated yet | comments 1

NASA sees Giovanna reach cyclone strength, threaten Madagascar

Tropical Storm 12S built up steam and became a cyclone on February 10, 2012 as NASA's Terra satellite passed overhead. Residents of east-central Madagascar should prepare for this cyclone to make landfall ...

Space & Earth / Earth Sciences

created 3 hours ago | popularity not rated yet | comments 0

Humans may have helped the decline of African rainforests 3000 years ago

(PhysOrg.com) -- Large areas of rainforests in Central Africa mysteriously disappeared over three thousand years ago, to be replaced by savannas. The prevailing theory has been that the cause was a change ...

Space & Earth / Environment

created 15 hours ago | popularity 4.2 / 5 (9) | comments 10 | with audio podcast report

Could Venus be shifting gear?

(PhysOrg.com) -- ESA’s Venus Express spacecraft has discovered that our cloud-covered neighbour spins a little slower than previously measured. Peering through the dense atmosphere in the infrared, the ...

Space & Earth / Space Exploration

created 11 hours ago | popularity 5 / 5 (7) | comments 7 | with audio podcast

Mars Science Laboratory computer issue resolved

(PhysOrg.com) -- Engineers have found the root cause of a computer reset that occurred two months ago on NASA's Mars Science Laboratory and have determined how to correct it.

Space & Earth / Space Exploration

created 12 hours ago | popularity 4.7 / 5 (6) | comments 3 | with audio podcast


Google users warned of threat to smartphone wallets

Users of Google smartphone wallets were being warned on Friday that there is a way to crack pass codes intended to thwart thieves from going on illicit shopping sprees.

Anonymous knocks CIA website offline (Update)

The website of the Central Intelligence Agency was inaccessible on Friday after the hacker group Anonymous claimed to have knocked it offline.

Complex wiring of the nervous system may rely on a just a handful of genes and proteins

Researchers at the Salk Institute have discovered a startling feature of early brain development that helps to explain how complex neuron wiring patterns are programmed using just a handful of critical genes. ...

New error-correcting codes guarantee the fastest possible rate of data transmission

Error-correcting codes are one of the triumphs of the digital age. They’re a way of encoding information so that it can be transmitted across a communication channel — such as an optical fiber o ...

Putting the squeeze on planets outside our solar system

(PhysOrg.com) -- Using high-powered lasers, scientists at Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory and collaborators discovered that molten magnesium silicate undergoes a phase change in the liquid state, abruptly ...

The power of estrogen -- male snakes attract other males

A new study has shown that boosting the estrogen levels of male garter snakes causes them to secrete the same pheromones that females use to attract suitors, and turned the males into just about the sexiest ...