Russia in secret plan to save Earth from asteroid: official
December 30, 2009
This 2001 picture taken by the Galileo spacecraft shows asteroid 243 Ida. Russian scientists will soon meet in secret to work on a plan for saving Earth from a possible catastrophic collision with a giant asteroid in 26 years, the head of Russia's space agency said Wednesday.
Russian scientists will soon meet in secret to work on a plan for saving Earth from a possible catastrophic collision with a giant asteroid in 26 years, the head of Russia's space agency said Wednesday.
"We will soon hold a closed meeting of our collegium, the science-technical council to look at what can be done" to prevent the asteroid Apophis from slamming into the planet in 2036, Anatoly Perminov told Voice of Russia radio.
"We are talking about people's lives," Perminov was quoted by news agencies as telling the radio station.
"Better to spend a few hundred million dollars to create a system for preventing a collision than to wait until it happens and hundreds of thousands of people are killed," he said.
The Apophis asteroid measures approximately 350 metres (1,150 feet) in diameter and RIA Novosti news agency said that if it were to hit Earth when it passes nearby in 2036 it would create a new desert the size of France.
Perminov said a serious plan to prevent such a catastrophe would probably be an international project involving Russian, European, US and Chinese space experts.
Interfax quoted him as saying that one option would be to build a new "space apparatus" designed solely for the purpose of diverting Apophis from a collision course with Earth safely.
"There won't be any nuclear explosions," Perminov said. "Everything will be done according to the laws of physics. We will examine all of this."
In a statement dated from October and posted on its website, the US space agency NASA said new calculations on the path of Apophis indicated "a significantly reduced likelihood of a hazardous encounter with Earth in 2036."
"Updated computational techniques and newly available data indicate the probability of an Earth encounter on April 13, 2036, for Apophis has dropped from one-in-45,000 to about four-in-a-million," NASA said.
RIA Novosti said the asteroid was expected to pass within 30,000 kilometres (18,600 miles) of Earth in 2029 -- closer than some geo-stationary satellites -- and could shift course to hit Earth seven years years after that.
(c) 2009 AFP
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Dec 30, 2009
Rank: 4.9 / 5 (15)
Dec 30, 2009
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Dec 30, 2009
Rank: 4 / 5 (4)
If the later quote about the serious planning being an international affair is taken at face value, they're saying that the "secret planning" is somewhat pointless... perhaps watching Armageddon a few times to study their techniques?
Dec 30, 2009
Rank: not rated yet
My eyes skipped right over that. That's a good point.
I also wonder what they can possibly get operational in space for only a few hundred million. Or are other countries expected to give money to the program they develop?
Dec 30, 2009
Rank: 5 / 5 (1)
Maybe the Russians need this meeting to figure out for themselves the obvious ...the odds of a collision have dropped significantly. Not that they were that close to begin with. And the new NASA orbital analysis did of course look closely at the 2029 approach.
Dec 30, 2009
Rank: 5 / 5 (5)
Why would Mother Russia do this unless it was part of a plan to deal with Moose and Squirrel?
Dec 30, 2009
Rank: 2.3 / 5 (3)
Some are convinced that there is little chance of a strike, who do they blame/sue if Apophis is disturbed into a strike?
I suggest that a safer option in this race is to shoot down any Apophis bound mission. And I recall a lesson from freshman physics in transfer of momentum. Who fails to do arithmetic is doomed to nonsense.
Dec 30, 2009
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Dec 30, 2009
Rank: 3.7 / 5 (7)
Dec 30, 2009
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Dec 30, 2009
Rank: 3.7 / 5 (3)
Actually 1 in 45,000 is pretty scary. Just over two earth diameter's away is nothing to sneeze at, especially if that thing was significantly bigger.
Or maybe I'm just thinking that because I just got finished reading "Lucifer's Hammer", a couple weeks ago... :P
Anyway, it's only a matter of time before we will need a gravity tractor... why not start now?
Dec 30, 2009
Rank: 3 / 5 (1)
...god forbid they resourt to some evil form of metaphysics :) Sounds like a cover for their future version of a missile defence shield, as a retaliation to Washington's plans to set up parts of its own in Europe, lol.
Dec 30, 2009
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Dec 31, 2009
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Dec 31, 2009
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And then theres frajo, who chooses to strike back in complete and total childlike ignorance.
Dec 31, 2009
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Dec 31, 2009
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Dec 31, 2009
Rank: 3.8 / 5 (4)
1/4,000,000 = probability it will hit and destroy france sized area.
$2.85 Trillion GDP(France) * 200 years(time to repopulate and restore) = 570 Trillion Dollar loss from impact.
570 Trillion/4 million = $142,500.
So the value of preventing the possibility is $142,500? Anybody else have some number on whether this is worth doing right now? this seems a little low and maybe we should add some secondary benefits such as probability of any asteroid if the program could be repurposed as a general planetary defence system. Also might factor in global effect of impact such as climate change. Maybe theres some secondary benefits in terms of research or knowledge generation we can put a dollar sign on? then again it could land in the water or other unpopulated regions and not matter so much to GDP.
Dec 31, 2009
Rank: not rated yet
Any small rock that collides with it can change the course.(the further away it is in time the smaller the 'needed' push is)
The ironic thing would be if we would build a device to change the course but make sure it collides with earth (prefereable on an enimy country)
And the funding will be provided without problem (to do the opposite). It's like a free military budget.
Dec 31, 2009
Rank: 4 / 5 (1)
Russia to start research into spacecraft nuclear engines in 2010.
http://en.rian.ru...824.html
Dec 31, 2009
Rank: 1 / 5 (2)
http://en.wikiped...Kulagina
http://en.wikiped...lue_Book
http://www.googleguide.com/
Dec 31, 2009
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We should probably wait until sometime closer to a last window of opportunity to change it's trajectory and make sure it IS going to hit, before trying to change it's path and turn that 1 in 4 million into 1 in 4.
Otherwise, let the conspiracy talks roll! Anyone think there's any coincidence that the asteroid was named after a famous Goa'uld ? *wink wink*
Dec 31, 2009
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Dec 31, 2009
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Dec 31, 2009
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Dec 31, 2009
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Dec 31, 2009
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Dec 31, 2009
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http://en.wikiped...iki/Apep
Dec 31, 2009
Rank: 5 / 5 (4)
Anyway, an idea could be to keep a satellite around Earth or the Moon, waiting, ultimately to break away and "latch" onto a suspecting asteroid. If you can safely bring the satellite to zero-velocity in reference to the object, possibly landing it on its surface, the thrust from slowly pulling away from said object is effective. Nevertheless, the data capture potential in this expedition is definitely valuable for later and/or similar missions. You can't afford not to.
Dec 31, 2009
Rank: 2 / 5 (2)
Haha u r right ! But then again... How did the Stargate production team pull this one off ?
Dec 31, 2009
Rank: 1 / 5 (1)
DENIED !!!
http://en.wikiped...#Apophis
LOL ;)
Dec 31, 2009
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Dec 31, 2009
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Dec 31, 2009
Rank: 3.7 / 5 (3)
Not that I don't expect fine members of the KGB like Mr. Putin to rule his fiefdom with a iron, yet compassionate fist, but we are foolish to trust a Russia who is busy making new space weapons to destroy the west with.
Any mission to alter the trajectory of Apophis needs to be open and international. No nation should try this by itself, simply for security reasons!
Dec 31, 2009
Rank: 5 / 5 (1)
This isn't the beginning. The Russians had some pretty kooky stuff when the Iron curtain fell. They also realized that the US had far weirder stuff in addition to a far larger conventional arsenal.
Dec 31, 2009
Rank: 4 / 5 (1)
A popular sci fi scenario. Dont worry, the Russ are on our side. This is another good reason for practice. With more entities venturing into space it is essential that the Powers master this ability first which includes finding ways of countering it.
@phelankell
Are scalar weapons real? Some think so.
Dec 31, 2009
Rank: 5 / 5 (2)
Dec 31, 2009
Rank: 3 / 5 (3)
Nope, no such plan ever existed, it's just a very fresh example of voluntary Soviet propaganda of old times from its very beginning. Russians are just trying to collect justification (and possibly money) for their sending of nuclear weapons and space-ships to orbital path, which would enable them to terrorize the rest of world. The probability of failure of such spaceships in Earth atmosphere and global nuclear pollution is quite high and whole project, if it will be organized (which I seriously doubt) can even increase the possibility of Earth destruction at the case of its failure.
Dec 31, 2009
Rank: 4 / 5 (2)
Doubtful. Scalar weapons are the invention of crackpot minds. If we did have anything remotely close to what proposed scalar weapons are I'm fairly sure we'd be controlling weather with them for our benefit rather than blowing things up for another's detriment.
That and I'm fairly sure they'd require new physics. Or at least physics that most physicists are unaccustomed to.
Dec 31, 2009
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Dec 31, 2009
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Dec 31, 2009
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If Russians want really want to save world, why they're pretending, they've plan, which they haven't? Why they want to develop & keep this plan in secret? Why they're claiming, Apophis will hit the Earth with no further evidence? etc.
Dec 31, 2009
Rank: 3 / 5 (2)
Dec 31, 2009
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Dec 31, 2009
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@flameon
We're not ants and are not often limited by natural causes in the social sphere any more.
Dec 31, 2009
Rank: 1.7 / 5 (3)
Yes, we are. At the moment, when interests of individual subjects compensate mutually ("what is good for you isn't good for me"), their logics and intelligence is serving just for another increasing of chaotic character of dense gas - which is how civilization is behaving at large scales. Do you believe, we can control economical crisis, wars or life environment devastation? No way - if we could, we would avoid it already...
Dec 31, 2009
Rank: 5 / 5 (1)
Dec 31, 2009
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http://www.newsci...l-e.html
The suggestion is, that Russia will welcome the effect of global warming, in fact. Russia is eminently interested in keeping oil prices as high, as possible - it enables them to continue in arming. In addition, by keeping the Arctic Circumpolar Seas ice-free all year round, climate change will unlock Russia's enormous and lucrative reserves of fossil fuel. No wonder, they would boycott AGW international treaties by all means possible.
Dec 31, 2009
Rank: 5 / 5 (4)
Dec 31, 2009
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OTOH, there's "us" who know we've come a long way and "we"'ll have to go a longer way.
"We" know that after having eveloped language, writing systems, and internet "we"'ll evelop the art of minimizing pain by cooperation on all levels of the local biosphere, step by step.
Dec 31, 2009
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Dec 31, 2009
Rank: 1 / 5 (1)
Dec 31, 2009
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I guess if this object could be directed to a specific part of the globe, then it could make some political sense. Just saying.
Well, at least the laws of physics are going to be adhered to.
Dec 31, 2009
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Dec 31, 2009
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Dec 31, 2009
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Dec 31, 2009
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So come on frajo, we've been here before, state your beliefs, give us something we can pick our teeth with.
Jan 01, 2010
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Jan 01, 2010
Rank: 4 / 5 (4)
2 Perminov said. "Everything will be done according to the laws of physics.
3 We will examine all of this."
My way:
1 Why not nuclear? :) Our race loves fireworks.
2 350 meters of Rock.
3 Objective: kill the Rock.
DONE.
Jan 01, 2010
Rank: not rated yet
Your way too simple also does not demand the big expenses so there will be no also a financing. And all who exaggerates difficulties to accident prevention, do everything that it have paid more.
Jan 01, 2010
Rank: not rated yet
I guess if this object could be directed to a specific part of the globe, then it could make some political sense. Just saying.
Well, at least the laws of physics are going to be adhered to.
Jan 01, 2010
Rank: 5 / 5 (1)
Jan 01, 2010
Rank: 5 / 5 (2)
There would be a number of side effects (nuclear winter, crops lost to dust, water pollution, etc) that significantly increase the cost of an impact. Plus the loss of life.
Jan 01, 2010
Rank: 1 / 5 (1)
Jan 01, 2010
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Aren't nuclear explosions results from following the laws of physics? It's a contradictory statement. Perhaps he was just was trying to get to point that "brute force" was not going to be used; can this problem be solved gracefully? Why? Perhaps they want to examine it to recover alien DNA (or something to that effect); some meteorites have been found to contain them in the past! It might be a cover story for something bigger.
REFERENCES:
http://www.popsci...teorites
Jan 02, 2010
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Jan 02, 2010
Rank: 1 / 5 (3)
Jan 02, 2010
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Jan 02, 2010
Rank: 3.7 / 5 (3)
No price on the human/environmental cost? I admit saving a few million or more lives isn't worth much in some quarters, but it still needs to be included.
Jan 03, 2010
Rank: 3 / 5 (2)
1. No "secret meeting". Journalistic archaic sensationalism. A closed door meeting is a simple way of focussing the discussion, and is used in every institution inthe world. If it was secret, then why the public announcement prior to the meeting?
2. Russian project. I'm fairly sure everyone at NASA, especially Don Yeomans, is pleased to see the Russians picking up the ball while American support for space exploration and any expensive research takes a (hopefully) short break.
3. Anyone who has followed the story of this asteroid since the discovery in 2004 knows that it is the first of it's kind (in public knowledge) and a great opportunity to demonstrate a growing fundamental necessity. Humans can control their destiny, and the Russians are inviting all capable agencies and governments to come together for this 'trial'.
Jan 04, 2010
Rank: 5 / 5 (2)
If you don't assume either of these then what you read is that they're just getting together to discuss possible strategies to deal with the asteroid in case the odds of a collision turn out to be higher in the future. They haven't suggested spending millions of dollars right now but threw out that number as a rough estimate of the cost should something eventually need to be done, which would be an effort and cost born by the countries with the most capability.
The comment about using something that obeys the laws of physics was probably just a poor way of saying they were not going to risk simply nuking the asteroid, but would use a device where the results would more predictably follow the laws of physics, such as a remote-controlled propulsion device, for instance, that could be adjusted as necessary depending on how the asteroid responded.
Jan 04, 2010
Rank: 1.5 / 5 (4)
Jan 04, 2010
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Because we're really in short supply of nickle and carbon. How exactly would you propose funding such an operation?
Jan 04, 2010
Rank: not rated yet
Do not panic!
Anyone who has followed the subject would know: over the past few years a number of conferences devoted to Security of Mankind were organized.
Here are some references
http://www.ipa.nw...ree.html
http://spacesystems.ru
http://www.ihst.ru/~akm/34.htm (see section 5)
http://www.ipa.nw...?lang=en
Planetary Defense Workshop, Lawrence Livermore, California, 1995.
http://impact.arc...fm?ID=93
http://impact.arc...m?ID=181
http://www.congre...tion.asp
Jan 04, 2010
Rank: 5 / 5 (1)
Even it it's made of commonly available materials here ON Earth, if it were in a high local orbit, those materials could eventually be used to build objects (spacecraft, stations, etc.) - without having to heavy lift those materials FROM Earth.
Jan 04, 2010
Rank: not rated yet
Burrow into for shielding
Robotic workers, borers, shepherds
PRECISION
-all possible sooner than we could imagine.
Jan 05, 2010
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It's 4 in a million.
ie. 4/1,000,000 = 1/250,000
Jan 06, 2010
Rank: 1 / 5 (1)
Feb 05, 2010
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http://www.univer...ngraded/