Morality research sheds light on the origins of religion

This study seems to discount the possibility that there might actually be a God. What if He really does exist??

This study seems to discount the possibility that there might actually be a God. What if He really does exist??

An interesting aside to Pascal's Wager, it only works for the Christian religion. No other religion that says it is the only way, the only truth, and only through their God can you get to heaven.

There is a huge difference between animistic and monotheistic religions, starting with their fundamentally different moralities.

"fundamentally different"... Really, now.

In animistic religions the world is unified, with man being equal to everything else in nature. In judeo-christian religions, man is the supreme ruler of all beings.

In other words, religion is just another term for human ignorance,egoism and selfishness.

@CarolinaScotsman

What if you are of the wrong religion, you'll be in for a heck of a surprise, right?

What you used is called Pascal's Wager and is typically a pretty non-entertaining argument for religion.

...ever heard of a guy by the name of Genghis Khan?

cannibalism is a taboo in the animal kingdom, with a few exceptions.

The ultimate source of morality is a mistery

Eventually some enterprising individuals developed monotheism greatly simplifying beliefs. Monotheism also allowed better control over population which made it popular with rulers ensuring it's success.

The representation of private interests ... abolishes all natural and spiritual distinctions by enthroning in their stead the immoral, irrational and soulless abstraction of a particular material object and a particular consciousness which is slavishly subordinated to this object.

I have indeed noticed that religious people tend to harbor the delusion that without their religion, they'd have no morality.

Karl Marx, On the Thefts of Wood, in Rheinische Zeitung (1842).

Wise man.

So how has the Judea-Christian faith been used by its followers to gain wealth and power at the expense of others?

Karl Marx, On the Thefts of Wood, in Rheinische Zeitung (1842).

Wise man.

If he's so wise then why did you pervert his statement by removing over a paragraph of it to suit your point of view?

in einer Vertretung der Sonderinteressen zu finden belieben, hebt eine solche alle natürlichen und geistigen Unterschiede auf, indem sie an ihrer Stelle die unsittliche, unverständige und gemütlose Abstraktion einer bestimmten Materie und eines bestimmten, ihr sklavisch unterworfenen Bewußtseins auf den Thron erhebt.

So how has the Judea-Christian faith been used by its followers to gain wealth and power at the expense of others?

I'm a local thug and come by and steal your women, children, and property. You cannot stop me as I have a band of loyal people who I keep enthralled with money.

You decide you don't like the fact that I can control your actions through tangible force so you counter me by talking to my men about the eternity of torment they're in store for. (ie: the Hell fire sermons that became the norm as Christianity was on the rise in the Medieval period). Suddenly my men don't want to work for me anymore and my power is gone,

The sense of justice and the law is the most significant provincialism of the Rhineland, but it goes without saying that the special interest, as no country, no province, not as general, not so familiar with the local spirit. In direct contradiction to the assertion of the imagination of those writers who perfect for romance, unfathomable emotional depth and fruitful source of individual and peculiar forms of morality in a representation of special interests are pleased to see that raised to such a natural and spiritual differences by their place the immoral, foolish and mindless abstraction of a particular matter and a certain, her slavishly subdued consciousness rises to the throne.

You didn't address super's point that religion is used for power and control.

There is scant evidence in the Bible to suggest that any Jewish prophet, Jesus or his disciples used their faith for power and wealth.

Nicely selected sample, but surely you jest. In that very same book, Jesus is depicted as supposedly raging against the priests and the money changers.

all the while my former riches are being donated to your church to prevent an eternity in hell.

Interesting that another article on PhyOrg here discussed how brain damage can increase the likelihood of "spirituality".

http://www.physor...522.html

Seems to be a likely explanation for Marjon.

Religion is not christianity. Stop trying to threadjack, Marjon.

Besides, you can't even prove Jesus existed. Your collection of stories is interesting, but doesn't address the point that is being discussed, which is where religion originated in the human brain, and why evolutionary processes selected for those that were more prone to religious beliefs.

The 2000 year old religion that you are so enamored of borrowed stories and ideas from hundreds of other religions and tribal practices in order to attract as many followers as possible, and therefore increase its coffers and power.

So many are attacking all religion and making claims they can't support (how scientific!) and I refute.
And for attempting a rational discussion I am personally attacked.
You 'science' people are not very nice.

As more and more of these studies are written and discussed amongst the educated "elites" of our generation, will humanity finally see an end to the yoke of religion? One would hope so.

Religion is regarded as an unneeded bi-product of evolution by a large portion of academia and international intelligencia for a reason.

will humanity finally see an end to the yoke of religion? One would hope so.

WRT to the "God Gene", I think it's more a case of over-active pleasure centers. The "bliss" achieved in prayer or meditation, is a form of mental masturbation: a deliberate and skillful activation of reward centers in the brain, learned through practice with the benefit of built-in direct biofeedback. I doubt this has much survival value

Life was daily horror.

Intelligently designed pleasures, maybe? What I mean, besides the pithy phrase, is that perhaps advanced intelligence allows for pleasure centers to be activated, not based on a predefined set of stimuli, but more upon how the advanced cognizant human brain interprets it? If that is true, then possibly those pathways can be altered by generational sized societal trends so that religion will be considered a quaint historical tradition, rather than a necessary opiate.

As for the negatives of society, those will be there as long as communal/tribal instincts encourage an us vs. them attitude to prevail over the idea of the golden rule.

Replace one opiate with another?

Jesus promoted the golden rule as did those who believed Him.

Jesus promoted the golden rule...

That empathetic message seems to have taken quite some time to stick and is now at risk of becoming 'unstuck' as our secular society devalues life.

You have an odd way of equating a rise in individuality and freedom of conscience, not to mention objective and rational thought, to devaluation of life.

Who are promoting abortion and euthanasia? Educated 'elites'.

Euthanasia is about a person's right to arrange for an end to their own life with dignity while avoiding needless suffering.

"TACITUS, wrote in 109 AD of a Christ

We've already discussed the warped nature of your definition of "human life" on other threads.

Now you 'elites' decide what is human life and what is not?

Now you 'elites' decide what is human life and what is not?

Dolls look human in shape, but they're not alive. Anencephalic infants are human in body, and even have human reflexes (such as grasping, swallowing, breathing) but they're not human beings (lacking most of the mid- and upper-brain.) Brain death officially delineates the death of a human, as a matter of widely accepted and practiced law: even if the rest of the cadaver is "alive", and can be kept thus in an ICU.

Going forward, increasingly sophisticated prosthetics will allow us to replace most of the human body with artificial parts, or parts regrown from stem cells. The only body part that is irreplaceable, is the brain.

Further onward, it is inevitable that eventually human-scale artificial intelligence will be created. It will have to be accorded the equivalent rights of human beings, despite having no human DNA or biological component

A long winded answer to say "Yes, elites decide."

This study seems to discount the possibility that there might actually be a God. What if He really does exist??

I realized the other day, that if those of us who believe in an afterlife are wrong, we will never know the difference. But if those who believe there is no afterlife are wrong, they will be in for a very shocking surprise (perhaps even a hellish surprise).

This study seems to discount the possibility that there might actually be a God. What if He really does exist??

I realized the other day, that if those of us who believe in an afterlife are wrong, we will never know the difference. But if those who believe there is no afterlife are wrong, they will be in for a very shocking surprise (perhaps even a hellish surprise).

Why fabricate a religion, Christianity, that promotes the individual and eschews government? What was in it for Abraham or Isiah or Jesus or Paul?

A long winded answer to say "Yes, elites decide."

I'll choose the elites of science and philosophy, over those lodged in the Vatican, any day and any time.

A long winded answer to say "Yes, elites decide."

I'll choose the elites of science and philosophy, over those lodged in the Vatican, any day and any time.

Who decides who is 'elite'? The 'elites'?

I thought the the more knowledge someone acquired, the more he would realize how much more there was to know.

Who decides who is 'elite'? The 'elites'?

I suspect many hate and attack the concept of God because He is superior to they and they can never be better than God.

Who decides who is 'elite'? The 'elites'?

I suspect many hate and attack the concept of God because He is superior to they and they can never be better than God.

The elites want you to believe in God. Look at what belief in God does to modern sociey. You're divided, confused, and resistant to change. That's what the elites would want, the more predictable you are the easier you are to control and guide, sight unseen.

He wants me to share His message, not force it on anyone.
That is quite opposite of our latest 'hope and change' messiah, Obama, who wants to everyone to change to socialism.

He wants me to share His message, not force it on anyone.
That is quite opposite of our latest 'hope and change' messiah, Obama, who wants to everyone to change to socialism.

Funny... I thought you were a Christian. If you actually ever bothered to delve into Christ's message, you'd find it's not only Socialist, but downright Communist at its core.

"organized religion" is just the matrix that various groups use to describe the beliefs they hold....

I love browsing physorg and finding a religious article, always guaranteed lots of comments arguing on both sides, usually the same people over and over again.

"Donate" or roast in the fires of hell. How many have been roasted here on earth because they refused to "donate" to Xian domination? How many ostracized in Xian families, villages, and parishes because they were reluctant to embrace the nonsense which is the Xian lie?

CarolinaScotsman " I realized the other day, that if those of us who believe in an afterlife are wrong, we will never know the difference. But if those who believe there is no afterlife are wrong, they will be in for a very shocking surprise (perhaps even a hellish surprise).

Xian, for anyone besides the troll who knows full well what it means, is the abbreviated version of Christ-ian or Christ-mas. It evokes either the cross itself or the sound of the root. It may also hearken to the original symbol for Christ, the chi-rho:
http://en.wikiped.../Chi-Rho
-I see a curious connection between Xian and Zion, both with militancy at their core (myth has it that Constantine adopted the religion after a vision he had on his way to battle another emperor, but in reality Romans had been tailoring the religion for centuries by cheerfully culling the Xian throngs of arrians and others whose beliefs ran counter to this new social control mechanism). This Xian/Zion coincidence- much like the Jesus/Joshua/Jehovah character, only lend more weight to the obvious conclusion that these religions were all concocted by the same enduring Organization, for the same Purpose.

Yes, I see you're still here. I guess the capitalists won over another christian. So much for roasting in hell forever, which, by the way, is a frequent threat to all nonbelievers in the Koran. Being a christian, that means you, too.

Xian, for anyone besides the troll who knows full well what it means, is the abbreviated version of Christ-ian or Christ-mas. It evokes either the cross itself or the sound of the root. It may also hearken to the original symbol for Christ, the chi-rho:
http://en.wikiped.../Chi-Rho
-I see a curious connection between Xian and Zion, both with militancy at their core (myth has it that Constantine adopted the religion after a vision he had on his way to battle another emperor, but in reality Romans had been tailoring the religion for centuries by cheerfully culling the Xian throngs of arrians and others whose beliefs ran counter to this new social control mechanism). This Xian/Zion coincidence- much like the Jesus/Joshua/Jehovah character, only lend more weight to the obvious conclusion that these religions were all concocted by the same enduring Organization, for the same Purpose.

So you just want to insult Christians. I'm not surprised.

Why is it such a surprise that Christians support individual liberty and private property rights? That philosophy spans many religions.

Xianists are too lazy to think for themselves or edit their posts. Xianists and all religionists insult everything that is good and right and reasonable about this world. Time for religion to end.

Why is it such a surprise that Christians support individual liberty and private property rights? That philosophy spans many religions.

Only the current pap you've been fed. Used again.

Is that how you justify your insulting behavior?

Is that how you justify your insulting behavior?

I would like to be sexually involved with you and both of our feces. Are you in?

Is that how you justify your insulting behavior?

I would like to be sexually involved with you and both of our feces. Are you in?

Such discussions about religion bring out the best in people.

Christ encourages His followers to DONATE their time and treasure.

[That depends upon 'the god' one worships. Is your god science, government power, yourself?
The God I believe in wants me to control myself, not others.

He wants me to share His message, not force it on anyone.

That is quite opposite of our latest 'hope and change' messiah, Obama, who wants to everyone to change to socialism. Thank God there are people who are resistant to such change.

Socialism and Christianity go hand in hand. Wasn't it Jesus who began redistribution of wealth by handing out food, the only form of wealth at the time, to the poor and huddled masses?

Maybe the point is too subtle for you to understand. Jesus wants us as INDIVIDUALS to give. Giving is VOLUNTARY

Maybe the point is too subtle for you to understand. Jesus wants us as INDIVIDUALS to give. Giving is VOLUNTARY

A very recent, local, and temporary interpretation. 'Jesus' wanted you to give up everything including your identity, personality etc and follow him. So did puritans, an extremely totalitarian society- hence the name. They burned unattached women you know.

'Jesus' wanted you to give up everything including your identity, personality etc and follow him

He wants me to share His message, not force it on anyone.

You're being rather forceful now.

'Jesus' wanted you to give up everything including your identity, personality etc and follow him

Which was a very convenient definition for the church (and still is) who figured that if you didn't WANT to give the tithe or serve n Xian armies you must be a heretic. So you burned. Same way today (in Lebanon?) but not as draconian- depending on the sect, members are hounded, ostracized to to 'donate' and conform. And to disbelieve and reject the latest version of heresy as defined by the church. Puritans and all xians need their priests to interpret the bible for them- 'do we embrace the stranger or assume he's Satan? Is it ok to marry our cousin or not? Do we spare the rod and spoil the child? Do we eat fish on Friday? Do we harass the Moslems/Jews/gypsies/comanches/Lutherans or merely tolerate them? Do we believe king James or NIV? does the Teacher say everything is meaningless or just that we are all too vain to understand?

Let's see, the bible says we stone Ethel so... what the hell? Gods will-

What is so great about Christianity is the capacity for forgiveness and a fresh start

Let's see, the bible says we stone Ethel so... what the hell? Gods will-

Think for yourself.
The Bible says don't murder and love your neighbor as yourself.

The Bible says don't murder and love your neighbor as yourself.

Read the Bible and think for yourself.

Read the NIV- less overall lying and obfuscation through translation.

do it before you open your mouth or write some seriously inaccurate post for or against a particular worldview

I humbly urge you all to read and study the Tao Te Ching, the Bible, the Koran, The Guru Granth Sahib, The Upanishads, The Dhammapada, The Bhagavad Gita, Native American myths, All the Greek and Roman myths. Any and every thing you can think of that can be considered a "holy book"-read. Read the translations, read all of them. Read them in their original language; at least try to grasp its original intended meaning. Learn the history of these texts. Research their origins, their writers, their proponents and their enemies. Just read, analyze and critically think about the subjects at hand, and do it before you open your mouth or write some seriously inaccurate post for or against a particular worldview.

That may be why mainstream Christianity has such deep disagreements with the NIV translation

What is so great about Christianity is the capacity for forgiveness and a fresh start

The only reason you crave absolution is because from birth your religion has made you feel guilty for being born a sinner; and if you don't beg daily for forgiveness you will burn for it. This guilt pervades your life; you heard it from your parents, your priests, you read it in your bible and you teach it to your kids. The sin of being a human being binds you to that institution like nothing else. It keeps you paying, and worshipping and heeding until you forget what reality is. The church punishes you for no reason. You had nothing to be sorry for to begin with, and if you weren't Christian you wouldn't feel the need to be absolved of anything. We all suffer this residue of religionist guilt; our culture is full of it. When the church is gone we will all be absolved.

Think for yourself.
The Bible says don't murder and love your neighbor as yourself.

droom: Satan knew the Bible well too.
The question regarding any literature is do you understand the meaning?

This study seems to discount the possibility that there might actually be a God. What if He really does exist??

I'm just urging some research on whatever the matter is at hand

Satan knew the Bible well too

Say, marjon, do you actually understand socialism or is it just a buzz word that you throw around

Why did I post the bit from Samuel?

marjon obviously is skewed towards believing that a common dictatorship is the same as socialism.

Say, marjon, do you actually understand socialism or is it just a buzz word that you throw around to mean "a social/economic model that I don't like"? Also, communism and socialism aren't interchangeable, but someone that actually had an iota of education would already know that.

Socialism: state control of private property. Mises wrote a nice summary.

Controlling the means of production with regulation is much easier.
Ergo, socialism is state control of 'private' property.

Controlling the means of production with regulation is much easier.
Ergo, socialism is state control of 'private' property.

No, no it isn't. You've oversimplified in order to attempt to deflect the fact that you have no idea what you are talking about.

Jesus titty ****ing christ, I can't keep doing it.

Socialism is characterized by public/labor ownership or regulation of capital/the means of production, NOT NECESSARILY STATE OWNED OR REGULATED.

The 'public' IS the state.

The 'public' IS the state.

Not necessarily.

I'm not part owner of the military, or of the Pentagon, or of the White House or of Capital Hill. The state and the public are not identically equal.

The 'public' IS the state.

That's what the N A Z I s did. Industry was 'privately' owned, but still controlled by the state.

Socialism is merely a method of resource distribution, not a political state. All members of the society receive equal compensation or resources based upon the total count of residents. Resources are always evenly divided between residents regardless of need.

There are many that you will never convince. So be it. I guess that is why there is a hell. Only time will prove who is right and who is wrong

I There are many that you will never convince. So be it. I guess that is why there is a hell. Only time will prove who is right and who is wrong.

Who divides and allocates the resources?

What if one individual does not want to share?

Who divides and allocates the resources?

The society.

What if one individual does not want to share?

I'm sure the society would develop laws to address this.

The success of science is based on an axiomatic denial of the existence of consciousness. By igoring the only thing that each individual scientist knows to be true, science freed itself to explain material phenomenon without the burden of explaining where it came from. Denying consciousness also denies God, since God would have to be conscious. It is disingenuous of science to make claims about God's existence when God has been axiomatically proscribed in its philosophy.

Like threatening to take his life?

Christians really dont understand the implications of hell. Its just a SCARE TACTIC. Its 100% INCONSISTENT with your core beliefs

God can never be denmostrated by science. If yes faith would be useless.
Rotundo Pierluigi

In the eyes of marjon, Von Mises is the second coming. Whatever Von Mises says or defines, is tautologically true by marjon's definition: just like the Bible. The rest of us must either accept Von Mises upon our hearts, or suffer the consequences of marjon's wrath.

God can never be denmostrated by science. If yes faith would be useless.

Rotundo Pierluigi

There is no doubt that spiritual experiences and religion, which are ubiquitous across cultures and time and associated exclusively with humans, are ultimately based in the brain. However, there are many unanswered questions about how and why these behaviors originated and how they may have been shaped during evolution

I have faith that whatever is real can eventually be uncovered and understood by science.

I have faith that whatever is real can eventually be uncovered and understood by science.

Auto, what evidence do you have to support your faith?
Your 'science' sounds like a religion as it requires faith, just as Max Planck said.

Adam to Noah to Abraham to Jesus

Auto, what evidence do you have to support your faith?
Your 'science' sounds like a religion as it requires faith, just as Max Planck said.

That is a non-question

The problem isn't with the government. The problem is with the governed. Such as yourself, marjon...

Auto, what evidence do you have to support your faith?
Your 'science' sounds like a religion as it requires faith, just as Max Planck said.

See this is why we science types love picking you people apart. To even pretend like science doesnt produce tangible results is just ASININE. Especially when you type said thing on a god damn computer using the internet.

Sciences faith is "We dont know, so we are going to find out".

Religions faith is "We dont know, so we are going to trust a series of ancient scrolls to tell us why we live and how to live"

And science just uses faith in the unknown, there is plenty known to us, and thats why we have technology.

Adam to Noah to Abraham to Jesus

None of those people ever existed. Neither did Moses, Issac, Jacob, Ruth, Joshua, Gideon, methuselah, Solomon, Saul, david, nor the minor prophets nor the apostles nor Hebrews in goshen et al. Enoch did exist but he was actually Thoth of Egypt. Did you know that the story of superman was taken directly from the Jesus fable, which itself was based on the Hercules/Heracles legend? So was robin hood. Nothing new under the sun. If you want to wow people it's best to start with something they're familiar with. Better cred.

There can be no faith in science. Faith is belief without proof. Science is a tool to answer your questions because so far, it must answer your questions.
What tools do you use when the science tool can't answer your questions?

Auto, what evidence do you have to support your faith?
Your 'science' sounds like a religion as it requires faith, just as Max Planck said.

And science just uses faith in the unknown, there is plenty known to us, and thats why we have technology.

It certainly helped the Jews survive as a culture during centuries of persecution and dislocation.

There can be no faith in science. Faith is belief without proof. Science is a tool to answer your questions because so far, it must answer your questions.
What tools do you use when the science tool can't answer your questions?

Do you even read what you type?? I mean really?
This is one of your own quotes

Auto, what evidence do you have to support your faith?
Your 'science' sounds like a religion as it requires faith, just as Max Planck said.

So does science have faith? Or does it not have faith? Because you have posted two contradicting thoughts within a couple posts of eachother. Kinda like that book you love so much.

It certainly helped the Jews survive as a culture during centuries of persecution and dislocation.

Doesn't mean its real. My goodness look at all the attention the troll is getting. Makes you feel better than going to church and getting ignored I bet.

The question remains, why the theme of faith?

There can be no faith in science. Faith is belief without proof. Science is a tool to answer your questions because so far, it must answer your questions.
What tools do you use when the science tool can't answer your questions?

Do you even read what you type?? I mean really?
This is one of your own quotes

Auto, what evidence do you have to support your faith?
Your 'science' sounds like a religion as it requires faith, just as Max Planck said.

So does science have faith? Or does it not have faith? Because you have posted two contradicting thoughts within a couple posts of eachother. Kinda like that book you love so much.

It's fun is it not?

There can be no faith in science. Faith is belief without proof. Science is a tool to answer your questions because so far, it must answer your questions.
What tools do you use when the science tool can't answer your questions?

Do you even read what you type?? I mean really?
This is one of your own quotes

Auto, what evidence do you have to support your faith?
Your 'science' sounds like a religion as it requires faith, just as Max Planck said.

So does science have faith? Or does it not have faith? Because you have posted two contradicting thoughts within a couple posts of eachother. Kinda like that book you love so much.

It's fun is it not?

Hey

There can be no faith in science. Faith is belief without proof. Science is a tool to answer your questions because so far, it must answer your questions.
What tools do you use when the science tool can't answer your questions?

Do you even read what you type?? I mean really?
This is one of your own quotes

Auto, what evidence do you have to support your faith?
Your 'science' sounds like a religion as it requires faith, just as Max Planck said.

So does science have faith? Or does it not have faith? Because you have posted two contradicting thoughts within a couple posts of eachother. Kinda like that book you love so much.

It's fun is it not?

Hey

Hey

The question remains, why the theme of faith?

Another non-question from the attention glutton which requires only a non-answer. Only your tic remains. Symptom of tourettes you know. Indicates brain damage; but take heart! It's treatable (but not here). Tourettes causes some people to spew profanities uncontrollably. The puritans thought this was possession and would burn the victim. Maybe this explains the load of guilt you feel in need of expunging. Ever happen during communion?

The question remains, why the theme of faith?

Another non-question from the attention glutton which requires only a non-answer. Only your tic remains. Symptom of tourettes you know. Indicates brain damage; but take heart! It's treatable (but not here). Tourettes causes some people to spew profanities uncontrollably. The puritans thought this was possession and would burn the victim. Maybe this explains the load of guilt you feel in need of expunging. Ever happen during communion?

Still ignoring the question to gain attention Auto?