Will Bloom box replace power grid? Details on Wednesday (w/ Video)
February 23, 2010 by Lisa Zyga
K.R. Sridhar holds two Bloom boxes, which together he says could power a US home. Credit: CBS.
(PhysOrg.com) -- The hot energy news for this week comes in the form of a small box called the Bloom box, whose inventor hopes that it will be in almost every US home in the next five to 10 years. K.R. Sridhar, founder of the Silicon Valley start-up called Bloom Energy, unveiled the device on “60 Minutes” to CBS reporter Leslie Stahl on Sunday evening. Although Sridhar made some impressive claims on the show, he left many of the details a secret. This Wednesday, the company will hold a “special event” in eBay’s town hall, with a countdown clock on its website suggesting it will be a momentous occasion - or at least generating hype.
As Sridhar explained to Stahl, the Bloom box is a new kind of fuel cell that produces electricity by combining oxygen in the air with any fuel source, such as natural gas, bio-gas, and solar energy. Sridhar said the chemical reaction is efficient and clean, creating energy without burning or combustion. He said that two Bloom boxes - each the size of a grapefruit - could wirelessly power a US home, fully replacing the power grid; one box could power a European home, and two or three Asian homes could share a single box. Although currently a commercial unit costs $700,000-$800,000 each, Sridhar hopes to manufacture home units that cost less than $3,000 in five to 10 years. He said he got the idea after designing a device for NASA that would generate oxygen on Mars, for a mission that was later canceled. The Bloom box works in the opposite way as the Mars box: instead of generating oxygen, it uses oxygen as one of the inputs.
Video: The Bloom box on "60 Minutes."
Although Sunday was the first time Bloom Energy came public with the Bloom box (there’s not even a sign on the company’s building), several devices are already being used by about 20 well-known companies. Google, FedEx, Walmart, eBay, Staples, and others have taken advantage of tax credits to purchase the Bloom boxes, and they’re seeing cost savings in their energy bills. For example, four refrigerator-sized units have been powering a Google datacenter for the past 18 months, using about half as much natural gas as would be required to generate the same amount of energy at a traditional power plant. And at eBay, five units running on bio-gas made from landfill waste that were installed nine months ago have saved the company more than $100,000 in electricity costs, said eBay CEO John Donahoe on “60 Minutes.” Donahoe added that, on a weekly basis, the Bloom boxes generate five times as much power than the 3,000 solar cells that are installed on the roofs of the company’s buildings.
Sridhar explained that the fuel cells inside the Bloom boxes are made from sand turned into thin ceramic squares, each side coated with a green or black “ink.” A single cell can power about one light bulb, but a stack of 64 of the cells could be “big enough to power a Starbucks,” Sridhar said. In between each disk there's a metal plate, but the Bloom box supposedly uses a cheap metal alloy instead of expensive platinum.
One of Bloom Energy’s early critics, Michael Kanellos of Green Tech Media, noted that researchers have been working with fuel cells since the 1830s. On “60 Minutes,” he told Stahl that, if Sridhar succeeds in making the technology affordable and efficient, there will likely be others that can, too.
“The problem is then G.E. and Siemens and other conglomerates probably can do the same thing,” he said. “They have fuel cell patents; they have research teams that have looked at this," Kanellos said.
"What do you think the chances are that in ten-plus years you and I will each have a Bloom box in our basements?" Stahl asked Kanellos.
"Twenty percent," he said. "But it’s going to say 'G.E.'"
Further details on the Bloom box - its efficiency; the materials it’s made of; how much carbon dioxide, water, heat, and other emissions it produces - are still secret. In a blog post Monday afternoon, Kanellos said that he had found a US patent filed by Bloom in 2006 and granted in 2009 that mentions the material “yttria stabilized zirconia” as well as electrodes made of metals in the platinum family - although this doesn’t necessarily mean anything. More information may be revealed at Wednesday’s event, which will feature John Doerr, partner in the venture capital firm Kleiner Perkins, which has provided financial assistance to the company. (Sridhar told Stahl that an estimate of $400 million raised by Bloom so far is “in the ballpark.”) Former Secretary of State Colin Powell, a member of Bloom Energy’s board, is also scheduled to be in attendance.
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Feb 23, 2010
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This will gonna change our future.
No more need for inefficient combustion engines.
Feb 23, 2010
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"made from sand turned into thin ceramic squares" ...was the press release intended for a pre-school level audience ?
no measurements or data given in conventional units just multiples of solar cells and Starbucks. sorry, but have to remain skeptical about this one.
Feb 23, 2010
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Feb 23, 2010
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Feb 23, 2010
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-- actually Google, FedEx, and a few other large players have had several of the commercial units installed for about a year now and say they are saving money. One comapny said that the 7 they have produce more power than the acres of solar farms on their campus.
@TJ_alberta -- no he literally makes ceramics from beach sand - its a fact, not meant to downplay any technology
@fhtmguy - If GE bought this they would want to install it everwhere and have you keep paying them money -- its cheaper to maintain than a grid. And remember this guy wants the world to have cheap energy - 'hes not evil' - so I doubt he will sell full rights to the energy giants
This will either be the greatest tech breakthrough since the internet or the biggest scam of the century -- only time will tell.
And china went solar and wind - HA
Feb 23, 2010
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Feb 23, 2010
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Must be a misunderstanding by the author, or a misprint.
Feb 23, 2010
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Feb 23, 2010
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"For example, four refrigerator-sized units have been powering a Google datacenter for the past 18 months, using about __half_as_much__ natural gas as would be required to generate the same amount of energy at a traditional power plant."
If we are really talking about thermal power plant using sub-critical steam pressure it's efficiency is roughly 30%. Half the fuel will mean double the efficiency. But the combined cycle gas turbine power plans have the same efficiency.
So what's the big deal? It's not a green energy source. It's not efficiency ramp up. It's about distribution of the electricity production. People will still have to _buy_ the power in the form of chemical energy (natural gas or whatever).
The immediate improvement will be lower energy transmission loss, but the actual price of the produced energy might go up when the demand for gas rises.
Shiny new piece of technology with adorable name - yes.
Energy revolution - hardly
Feb 23, 2010
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They only spent $400 million dollars, and a couple of years developing this.
NASA has proved that you need at least 100 years to leave low earth orbit again.
Feb 23, 2010
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Feb 23, 2010
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Considering the secrecy around this device and the fact that major companies have succesfully implemented it, I'd say they've proven two things: 1) it works. 2) it works so good that it's worth keeping HOW it works a secret
It's not April 1st so unless someone at Physorg made up a total BS article, how can anyone really be pessimistic about this?
Feb 23, 2010
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Feb 23, 2010
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None of this was in the 60minutes episode. Here lies a skeptic.
Feb 23, 2010
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Well, assuming these units go straight to homes, it will increase the demand for the service industry, but probably sharply decrease the demand for centralized power.
Feb 23, 2010
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Several websites quote that this would be 30% more efficient than grid energy. Unforunately, I can't backtrack and find the link to those sites... whoops! As for gas transmission, it's only cheaper in areas that have well established natural gas lines (i.e., here in northern Utah). If the gas has to be trucked (i.e. at my parents house in Rhode Island) gas prices are nearly 5 times higher, which you can probably deduce means much higher distribution costs.
Remember, though, that there's much more energy in a 5-gallon propane tank than in a comparably-heavy car battery. This could make portable energy more reasonable
Feb 23, 2010
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it needs to be at 1000 C according to the inventor to run -- so it probably just uses the energy and uses it to power a heat source.
It think this addresses why use natural gas as preferred energy source.
Feb 23, 2010
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- cow eats plant
- cow poops
- gas comes out
- gas is "burned"
- electricity and CO2 produced
- plant consumes CO2
- cow eats plant
repeat as many times as you want.
We'll never run out of this type of fuel source as long as we have plants and cows, or a similar way to produce combustible gas.
The point here is, in the video he says one wafer produces enough power to power a light bulb. Say it's a 30 watt light bulb. Stack enough of these together and you have a nice compact powerful generator that runs on stuff like natural gas. Natural gas is easy to transport and distribute. Think, electric cars that run on natural gas.
How is that not better than how we currently use power? Realistically this is a new type of generator that is more compact and more efficient, therefore will find many uses in many applications and will most likely replace many currently used technologies.
Why are people comparing this to an ICE? An ICE is extremely wasteful.
Feb 23, 2010
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Google just became a "power company". They didn't elaborate why, but they just got their license. They are also the first Bloom customer. What conclusions can we draw from this and the fact that Google is known for investing into technology that might not be profitable for quite some time at first, but has enormous potential?
Feb 23, 2010
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-er, sorry pp
Feb 23, 2010
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It seems to me that this tech has a number of advantages over conventionally-produced power:
Scalable, and likely portable; multiple fuels, likely including-with some modification- wood and agri-waste; greater overall efficiency; lastly, it is grid independent, so can be widely distributed without the need of transmission infrastructure.
What I would most like to see is what are the reaction waste products? What happens to O2-is it taken out of circulation? could part of the power be diverted to a water electrolysis cell to produce the O2 half of the reaction?
It doesn't appear to be a panacea, but definitely a big step in that direction.
Feb 23, 2010
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With an internal operating temp of ~1000C, I imagine that these devices would really shine when operated continuously - like replacing diesel generators on diesel-electric trains. It might take them a while to warm up.
Feb 23, 2010
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Assuming $100k, one saved $20k during 9 months, meaning $26k a year, at the cost of $800k each it will take 30 years for the investment to pay for itself assuming nonstop operation at the same efficiency and no additional maintenance costs (which is unlikely).
It's certainly nice to finally see some promise in the fuel cell department, but how much of an impact this will have depends on how much the costs can be lowered and how reliable and long lasting those cells will turn out to be.
Feb 23, 2010
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Feb 24, 2010
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Your calculation is only good until the cost of fuel changes. The more expensive the fuel- the greater the savings.
Feb 24, 2010
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Feb 24, 2010
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hydrocarbon and oxygen goes into the fuel cell. Out comes water, electricity, heat, CO2. Within the unit there is a reactor called a syngas generator, it takes CO2 and water (steam) and heat in the presence of a catylist and generates hydrocarbons (mainly methane), the syngas generator is able to convert 50% of the fuelcell byproducts back to fuel and feed back into the fuel cell to generate electricity. The net effect is that for a given amount of electricity it consumes half the natural gas. or to put it another way it is twice as efficient as a standard power generator because it can produce twice the electricity for the same amount of natural gas. This is also where the solar power comes in, the syngas generator requires alot of heat, so you collect the heat from solar collectors and add it to the heat given off from the fuel cell in order to drive the syngas.
Feb 24, 2010
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Feb 24, 2010
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Feb 24, 2010
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No plans exist to connect cows bums to pipes.
Natural Gas is extracted from decomposed organic matter.
As for including plants in your closed cycle, think rainforest destruction.
This technology shows a good improvement in efficiency but is simply the same old hydrocarbon burning strategy that has no long term future.
Feb 24, 2010
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Feb 24, 2010
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There was so much pseudo- and just bad science reported (and reporting) here that there just has to be a large jug of snake oil sitting around nearby. Count on it.
And if Bloom isn't a big snake oil factory, then the quality of 60 Minutes' science reporting is just too poor to be believed. All very disappointing.
Feb 24, 2010
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Feb 24, 2010
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No specifications on operating in extreme climates, what to do when they fail with the hazardous materials, etc. etc.
This is just one possible piece in the energy puzzle.
Feb 24, 2010
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http://www.bloome...imation/
A bit basic but still more info than before
Feb 24, 2010
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Feb 25, 2010
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I saw a show about a group driving across the States and ALL they burned to power the vehicle WAS dead trees garbage anything organic that burns.
Soooo either you haven't seen that technology or .. ?
You could probably find it with a search of google ..
Feb 25, 2010
Rank: 4.5 / 5 (2)
I guess some of you have been reading the VC world wide press avalanche push to get their investment in front of the public. It took over NINE YEARS IN DEVELOPMENT AND $ 400 MILLION FOR DEVELOPMENT of the Bloom technology !
1. It uses precious O2 ( Oxygen) for its energy.
2. It generates CO2 as a by product as well as hydrogen.
3. Just what we need more CO2. Steam how much energy ?
4. You cannot own the fuel cell so you will need to have a maintenance contract.
5. It is limited by the type and purity of the fuel used.
6. The reliability after 5 years is questionable. Replacement cells will have light bulbs efficiency.
7. $ 800,000 thousand per unit with 100 kW possible = $ 8 kW !!!!!!
8. When the units go bad,and they will, land fills will experience toxic waste increases the likes no one has seen before.
9. Cannot operate in extreme environments.
10. Uses Natural Gas like current power plants producting electricity for pennies on the dollar ?
Feb 28, 2010
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Feb 28, 2010
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So... steam engines? Great step forward, that.
Mar 01, 2010
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Mar 01, 2010
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Fuel + Oxygen -> Energy + CO2 + Water
The fuel cell is more efficient, avoids some of the problems of combustion (for example, the formation of nasty nitrogen compounds when your oxygen source is air), but does not avoid the problem of CO2 production.
So... is this going to help move people off the grid? You're essentially putting in a high-tech generator, so it's only worthwhile if grid energy is more expensive than having gas shipped to your house.
It's a neat technology, but like everything else it depends on what your goals are, and what you're willing to spend to get to them. Personally, I'm curious to see how they solved all the problems that a large number of fuel cell researchers have been hung up on for years.
Mar 06, 2010
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- No. Next silly question, please.