For One Tiny Instant, Physicists May Have Broken a Law of Nature
March 19, 2010 By Suzanne Taylor Muzzin
This image of a full-energy collision between gold ions shows the paths taken by thousands of subatomic particles produced during the impact.
(PhysOrg.com) -- For a brief instant, it appears, scientists at Brookhaven National Laboratory on Long Island recently discovered a law of nature had been broken.
For a brief instant, it appears, scientists at Brook haven National Laboratory on Long Island recently discovered a law of nature had been broken.
Action still resulted in an equal and opposite reaction, gravity kept the Earth circling the Sun, and conservation of energy remained intact. But for the tiniest fraction of a second at the Relativistic Heavy Ion Collider (RHIC), physicists created a symmetry-breaking bubble of space where parity no longer existed.
Parity was long thought to be a fundamental law of nature. It essentially states that the universe is neither right- nor left-handed — that the laws of physics remain unchanged when expressed in inverted coordinates. In the early 1950s it was found that the so-called weak force, which is responsible for nuclear radioactivity, breaks the parity law. However, the strong force, which holds together subatomic particles, was thought to adhere to the law of parity, at least under normal circumstances.
Now this law appears to have been broken by a team of about a dozen particle physicists, including Jack Sandweiss, Yale's Donner Professor of Physics. Since 2000, Sandweiss has been smashing the nuclei of gold atoms together as part of the STAR experiment at RHIC, a 2.4-mile-circumference particle accelerator, to study the law of parity under the resulting extreme conditions.
The team created something called a quark-gluon plasma — a kind of "soup" that results when energies reach high enough levels to break up protons and neutrons into their constituent quarks and gluons, the fundamental building blocks of matter.
Theorists believe this kind of quark-gluon plasma, which has a temperature of four trillion degrees Celsius, existed just after the Big Bang, when the universe was only a microsecond old. The plasma "bubble" created in the collisions at RHIC lasted for a mere millionth of a billionth of a billionth of a second, yet the team hopes to use it to learn more about how structure in the universe — from black holes to galaxies — may have formed out of the soup.
When the gold nuclei, traveling at 99.999% of the speed of light, smashed together, the plasma that resulted was so energetic that a tiny cube of it with sides measuring about a quarter of the width of a human hair would contain enough energy to power the entire United States for a year.
It was the equally gargantuan magnetic field produced by the plasma — the strongest ever created — that alerted the physicists that one of nature's laws might have been broken.
"A very interesting thing happened in these extreme conditions," Sandweiss says. "Parity violation is very difficult to detect, but the magnetic field in conjunction with parity violation gave rise to a secondary effect that we could detect."
Sandweiss and the team — which includes Yale physics research scientists Evan Finch, Alexei Chikanian and Richard Majka — found that quarks of a like sign moved together: Up quarks moved along the magnetic field lines, while down quarks traveled against them. That the quarks could tell the difference in directions suggested to the researchers that symmetry had been broken.
The results were so unexpected that Sandweiss and his colleagues waited more than a year to publish them, spending that time searching for an alternative explanation. The physicist is still quick to point out that the effect only suggests parity violation — it doesn't prove it — but the STAR collaboration has decided to open up the research to scrutiny by other physicists.
"I think it's a real effect, but we'll know more in the upcoming years," Sandweiss says.
Next, the team wants to test the result by running the experiment at lower collision energies to see if the apparent violation disappears when there is not enough energy to create the necessary extreme conditions.
If the effect proves to be real, it could help scientists understand a similar asymmetry that led to one of physics' most fundamental mysteries — namely, why the universe is dominated by ordinary matter today when equal amounts of matter and antimatter were created by the Big Bang.
Sandweiss, for one, is looking forward to some answers. "I'd really like to see this evolve and find out exactly what's going on," he says.
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Mar 19, 2010
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Are you still amazed by "breaking laws of Nature"?
Mar 19, 2010
Rank: 1 / 5 (12)
http://www.univer...-matter/
Mar 19, 2010
Rank: 4.3 / 5 (7)
I wish this article was a bit more quantifying regarding the effects - the strongest ever magnetic field, for example.
Mar 19, 2010
Rank: 1.2 / 5 (14)
"..their interactions would be very weak. They would pass harmlessly into space. They would vanish..." Gordon said, referring to stable black holes with no electrical charge.
http://www.msnbc....28901832
Of course, at the case of some accident all these smart experts would say, scenario involving magnetic field was "completely unexpected" - despite they observed it many times before. If only they survive it, of course.
Mar 19, 2010
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Mar 19, 2010
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http://thinkexist...169.html
In fact, the surprising thing would be, if no magnetic field would occur at RHIC.
Mar 19, 2010
Rank: 5 / 5 (10)
From http://onscreen-s...-rossler (lower third of the page):
Mar 19, 2010
Rank: 4.3 / 5 (6)
Mar 19, 2010
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Mar 19, 2010
Rank: 5 / 5 (6)
The title of this article is a bit misleading, since this "law" was known to be broken by a process in the weak force - CPT symmetry.
It is puzzling that on a sub atomic scale, you can not detect the arrow of time - if you view events, you cannot tell if "the film" as it were was going forward or backward - except for Parity violation for a specific decay.
http://physics.in...faq.html
[Feyman had a lecture on it - this stuff is really good reading]
So now they discovered a process - this time with the strong force - that violates Parity as well, and provides another basis for difference in time direction.
Mar 19, 2010
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Mar 19, 2010
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http://farm4.stat...1524.jpg
http://www.aps.or...form.jpg
Nothing really surprising is about it - it just illustrates another similarity between LHC collisions and real black holes.
Mar 19, 2010
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Mar 19, 2010
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Mar 19, 2010
Rank: 3.8 / 5 (4)
Well, symmetry has to be broken somewhere or we wouldn't be here (i.e. if symmetry were a real super-law then the universe would be very homogeneous. )
If this parity violation is corroborated by others in the field then it may well be Nobel-time for the people involved. Interesting stuff!
Mar 19, 2010
Rank: 1 / 5 (3)
Of course, "symmetry breaking bubble in space" simply means jet suppression, which was observed at RHIC before five years already. Many black holes are emanating single jet instead of two ones in the simmilar way, like oriented cobalt atom nuclei are emanating electrons..
My knowledge of the principles in question is limited, but I'm not seeing this "jet suppression". Is having the emission of up-quarks and down-quarks in this magnetic field, and distributed in the field normal to each other, the same as jet suppression?
Mar 19, 2010
Rank: 3 / 5 (2)
Can you even call it "looking" if you only do so for a mere millionth of a billionth of a billionth of a second?
Heh.
Mar 19, 2010
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Mar 19, 2010
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Mar 19, 2010
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complexes of protons and negative electrons that decayed into protons and electrons
electrons. maybe uncharged quarks are somehow composite particles that display their charge
at ultra high energies. Any guesses how that might work?
Mar 19, 2010
Rank: 5 / 5 (2)
BTW just a correction for your typo - Neutrons decay into proton, electron and anti-neutrino - as far as we know sub atomic decays conserve baryon number (neutron -> proton conserves that) but if only an electron (+1 Lepton) is produced in Neutron decay, Lepton number conservation would violated if the anti-neutrino (-1 Lepton) wasn't there to balance it out.
http://hyperphysi...ton.html
Mar 19, 2010
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Mar 19, 2010
Rank: not rated yet
Mar 20, 2010
Rank: 1 / 5 (5)
http://www.wissen...HOLE.pdf
Now all these experts are "surprised" by magnetic field, formed by products of RHIC collisions claiming, it's a "violation of laws of Nature".
This is all just a bare fact, the labeling of which negative or positive has absolutely no meaning. You can vote me negative, because I'm saying the Sun is shinning - but it still cannot change this trivial fact - it just demonstrates, how primitive and arrogant apes you all are.
People like you would burn Galileo with no mercy just because he doesn't play well with their religion.
Mar 20, 2010
Rank: 1 / 5 (4)
It's as simple, as it is - we all were fooled by these people for years. For example, whole this NS article is complete, utter BS.
http://www.newsci...ing.html
The discussion further demonstrates, some LHC proponents have absolutely no limit in their belief of LHC safety. No logical argument or experimental evidence would convince them about possibility of LHC risk. Such people can be recognized easily, as they're unable to answer question: "which experimental evidence or logical argument would convince you about danger of LHC research, for example?
Mar 20, 2010
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Mar 20, 2010
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The idiots that wont admit there is a possibility of a cataclysmic explosion that will destroy the whole earth not just the vicinity of the collide now have a very unexpected finding to discuss. I have always says it is the height of arrogance to state that all interactions of black holes and matter, especially quantum black holes can be predicted even if it is in unknown territory.
My idea is to do extremely high energy research
of that type on the moon or in space and never create black holes on earth.
Neil Farbstein
protn7@att.net
Mar 20, 2010
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Mar 20, 2010
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The word 'law' specifically is a human social statement that surrounds the idea of normalized behavior in a group context. Ie, the mental, and specifically the emotional norms of a group as expressed in and as dogmatism for standardization of group behavior.
What exists in science, is a group of theories.
Theories are things that exist as postulations of what ~might~ be happening in the given situation in a mathematical and theoretical attempt to describe facets of reality. They can be grouped and work together, mathematically and 'factually' (there is no such thing as a fact). Temporarily -ONLY.
Engineers use rules, as they are supposed to work on building things, never editorialize.
Anyone attempting to scientifically speculate, should not have the word 'law' in their vocabulary.
Science is in constant flux.
Laws do not allow for flux.
'Laws' are -fundamentally- very dangerous for science.
Mar 20, 2010
Rank: 3 / 5 (2)
Heaviside simplified the mathematics so that it could be manually worked on by pen and paper, in order to design working motors. The odd motor would spin out of control (ever heard of a dynamo 'testing' pit? the odd dynamo would spin out to +100k rpm..and levitate, then explode). This is due to the residual asymmetry in the mathematics that Heaviside did not remove.
Lorentz made the math symmetrical, and henceforth we had no problems! Fancy that! HOWEVER...he published it and worked on it, and the work was publicized in a situation where the company involved was owned by none other than JP Morgan. The guy who shut down Tesla.
Morgan even paid to have all the old textbooks ...removed and destroyed.
Why would he do that?
Mar 20, 2010
Rank: 1 / 5 (2)
For example, near black hole the light effectively runs in circles at place, thus violating the constant speed of light apparently. Of course, everybody can "feel", the light still spreads in its own original speed, because space-time is "heavily curved" there - but such interpretation is less and less relevant to observation of the same situation from outside. We are forced to believe in it - but we cannot check it directly.
In fact, at the case of this article we see, how the obstinate tendency to find something new violates the principles of scientific approach and critical thinking, thus demonstrating the limits of scientific method in analogous way, like the strong space-time curvature leads to violation of relativity laws.
Mar 20, 2010
Rank: 2.3 / 5 (3)
This is brilliant insight, indeed - but it was never inserted into his field equations, because it leads into very complex, implicit and fractally nested solution. It was only partially considered in later work of Cartan, Heim, Yilmaz and others.
In this way, the symmetry breaking and formation of extradimensions doesn't violate existing postulates of relativity and laws of nature in any way - it violates only their formal interpretation - which can never become as exact, as physicists need and hope.
As Einstein once said: "As far as the laws of mathematics refer to reality, they are not certain - and as far as they are certain, they do not refer to reality."
Mar 20, 2010
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But when the energy density increases, then the bubbles will get smaller and rounder, and the difference in surface curvatures of inner and outer surface gradients will get pronounced. The energy would propagate through foam like waves along watter surface, but the waves spreading along inner surface of membranes will be more preferred, then the waves spreading along outer surfaces. And the world will not symmetric anymore.
In fact, this behavior of vacuum near black holes is well known from Kerr metric at the case of rotating black holes, around which multiple asymmetric event horizons are formed.
Mar 20, 2010
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Mar 20, 2010
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Mar 20, 2010
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Mar 20, 2010
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You seem to be infering that this experiment proves that black holes are highly magnetic. I see no reference to that in the article despite having read it a number of times. Forgive my ignorance but what evidence is there anywhere that indicates proof of that theory.
tone
Mar 20, 2010
Rank: 1 / 5 (1)
http://en.wikiped...e_Glocke
Mar 20, 2010
Rank: 5 / 5 (1)
I dunno, Capt. Video and Doc Savage are kinda passe. However I do suggest that their are people who would suppress science for THEIR greater good.
Mar 21, 2010
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If you gonna break them laws, break them for profit, not for the sport.
Mar 21, 2010
Rank: 5 / 5 (1)
The fact that particular quarks follow particular field lines show an entirely new level of order within force field interaction.
Mar 21, 2010
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Mar 21, 2010
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Mar 21, 2010
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Mar 21, 2010
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If dark matter were, in fact, made out of micro black holes, that would fit with the notion of there being "many stable microscopic black holes and that they pose no danger to the earth."
Mar 21, 2010
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Mar 21, 2010
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Mar 21, 2010
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There is absolutely no reason why any specific micro black hole to be any different from any other micro black hole of the same mass. They're singularities whose event horizons allow no information about their inner structure to directly interact with the external physical world. They'll evaporate to the point of disappearance, or they MIGHT become remnant black holes. This last possibility is not a widely accepted hypothesis, however.
Mar 22, 2010
Rank: 2 / 5 (2)
Then, there is the question of present Physics holding good under conditions prevailing at Big bang or close to it when the energy density was extremely high and difficult to simulate in any accelerator in the years to come. In fact how can one ever think of approaching the energy density prevalent at or close to Big bang , as it is the total matter/energy of the Universe itself! To understand dark matter and energy one needs to evolve concepts around the primordial matter / energy that gave rise to both dark and visible matter and provided the 'repulsive gravity' that is accelerating universe
Mar 22, 2010
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Mar 22, 2010
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Mar 22, 2010
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Mar 22, 2010
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I think you've got yourself a bit mixed up here. The fact is that if there IS, indeed, dark matter, it is almost assuredly the case that there is a large flux passing through the earth in addition to the amounts predicted to be in galactic halos. There's absolutely no reason why there wouldn't be when there is estimated to be so much of it.
Mar 22, 2010
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Mar 22, 2010
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Uhm, what? Care to explain how light and magnetic fields propagate differently?
Mar 22, 2010
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This article is what I was talking about: http://science.na...ftes.htm
I was just wondering if there might be something similar in regard to gravity.
Mar 22, 2010
Rank: 5 / 5 (1)
What you're confusing isn't propagation. Magnetic waves and light waves are one in the same for all intents and purposes. What you're seeing, this "portal effect", is nothing more than the interaction of two magnetic fields.
The similar correspondant within gravity would be called a LaGrange point if I'm recalling correctly.
Your point isn't lost though. There are many within Physics who think gravity propagates instantly where light and electromagnetism propagate at c. I'm not sure how one would test this though as it's all but impossible for us to spot gravity waves insitu.
Mar 22, 2010
Rank: 5 / 5 (1)
and we arent capturing and storing this energy why?????
Mar 22, 2010
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Mar 23, 2010
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Mar 23, 2010
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Mar 23, 2010
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Mar 23, 2010
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Mar 23, 2010
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Mar 23, 2010
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Mar 23, 2010
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Mar 23, 2010
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No.
Mar 24, 2010
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Mar 24, 2010
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The gold ions are not flying away from the planet at subluminal and then returning at sub luminal.
SR relates to velocity over distance to affect time. There's no distance involved here. The only potential SR or time dilation effect you could perceive would be if you could ride on one of the ions, even then we're talking microseconds because you're only at that speed for a very limited period of time.
Mar 24, 2010
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A person running around the world has relative SR effects don't they? Is it any different if they run around in circles?
Mar 25, 2010
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Mar 25, 2010
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Mar 25, 2010
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Those bands are spaced in PERFECT "PI" They represent segmented domains of magnetic energies.
Mar 25, 2010
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Based upon frame of reference.
Since an atom circling around a collider can't tell us it's frame of reference and cares nothing about time unless observed there is no frame of reference.
Particle physics 101: In order for you to determine anything, you must lose access to determining everything else. As I said, the only way to quantify the dilation would be to take a ride on the atom.
Mar 27, 2010
Rank: 1 / 5 (1)
As it is known that observation can effect random outcomes. Perhaps in this particular instance there was more closures than openings creating nonsymmetry.
Apr 18, 2010
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When asked why they built the LHC, they cite the need to discover unknown physics.
This story demonstrates that at high energy an ordinarily firm law of nature can be broken, and this result was (for most mainstream physicists) unexpected.
What then of the law of conservation of energy? Suppose the LHC violates that? If you vanish in a flash, don't say I didn't warn you.
Apr 19, 2010
Rank: 5 / 5 (2)
You didn't mind when some 50 years ago the assumption of parity conservation and a bit later even the assumption of CP conservation was tilted.
You didn't mind when some 100 years ago the assumption that man cannot fly was proven to be incorrect.
You didn't mind when some million years ago the assumption that man has to survive each night without light and warmth was proven to be incorrect.
Or did you?