Mankind must abandon earth or face extinction: Hawking

Are you serious about that headline? I love Hawking, but your interpretation his statement that we should "spread out into space" is definitely alarmist and seems specifically built to generate clicks, which is definitely disappointing for a science news source like yourselves. I'll be removing you from my Google Reader feed. Good luck.

Are you serious about that headline? I love Hawking, but your interpretation his statement that we should "spread out into space" is definitely alarmist and seems specifically built to generate clicks, which is definitely disappointing for a science news source like yourselves. I'll be removing you from my Google Reader feed. Good luck.

Spreading out into space is exactly what would need to happen for humanity to survive in the long term. I don't see anything alarmist about it. Statistically it just makes sense.

On space colonization: Humans currently cannot survive a trip to Mars with current technology. The levels of radiation they would be exposed to would be very unhealthy to deadly.

Personally I think the universe would be much better off without humanity. There isn't much that is redeeming about our species anymore. We have turned inward and against each other. What we need is a big, giant asteroid to put us out of our selfish misery.

Personally I think the universe would be much better off without humanity. There isn't much that is redeeming about our species anymore. We have turned inward and against each other. What we need is a big, giant asteroid to put us out of our selfish misery.

This article sure has brought out the never and rare posters.
Two of which joined up just to complain. The reasoning behind that sort of behavior is severely deficient.

Humanity is deeply flawed as a species, and the same will to power that drives the inequity and abuse that has brought us to the brink on our home planet will follow us into space, as well.

As far as Kurzweil's singularity- if it does indeed occur, then our days as a species will be numbered, as any machine intelligence would necessarily view us as just as much of a plague as we view smallpox, and therefor just as much a target for immediate eradication.

The answers are not in the stars, but in our selves.

We already know that extended exposure to microgravity results in bone density loss and strength loss, and early studies suggest that normal fetal growth requires gravity. Without some sort of artificial gravity (centerfugal or otherwise) long term or generational space travel is a bad idea.

Mankind's future will depend upon innovative propulsion engines and energy sources to take us there.
http://www.youtub...AHXN_kAY

There's only one solution - Jesus must return to establish his everlasting kingdom. Whether all the unbelieving "scientific" types like it or not.

the whole universe cannot change the basic fact that mankind is consistently evil.

There's only one solution - Jesus must return to establish his everlasting kingdom. Whether all the unbelieving "scientific" types like it or not.

IMO, he's not that far off. I tend to believe the predictions of Ray Kurzweil when he says we are close to the acceleration of the advancement of technology eclipsing our ability to control it. There really is no way of knowing where we will be in 100 years.

Now, that alien stuff is pretty out there.

One More Thing: if you accept the logic of my previous comment, you should conclude that actually ABANDONING Earth would defeat the whole purpose of having another human colony. Fortunately, only the headline writer knows where that idiotic thought came from. I'm sure Hawking never suggested it.

Otto1923 talks about "vasimr engines" like democrats talk about a balanced budget.

He also says, "A breathtaking evolutionary leap awaits us." Since there's not 1 thing we know about macroevolution that's true - don't hold your breath (pun intended)

Finally, "Space colonization offers an unprecedented evolutionary bottleneck. 'Something wonderful'." Let's see - a drastic reduction in genetic variabilty is 'something wonderful' yeah - right.

A few points:
- Humans, unfortunately to not advance and evolve at the same rate, so hoping for us to evolve together is a faint dream. Look at natives in Africa, Thousands of years behind the rest of the world.

He also says, "A breathtaking evolutionary leap awaits us." Since there's not 1 thing we know about macroevolution that's true - don't hold your breath (pun intended)

I think this is a threat.
The word "must" obviously means that you want force (murder, destruction) to be used against those that don't "like it".

40 years on and we still don't have a clue about a cure for HIV with all our technology.

Please dont bring religion into anything on this site. It is IRRELEVANT and POINTLESS.

How tolerant!
Human emotions and society have no bearing on leaving the earth?
That will be one motivation for many to leave. Just as the Pilgrims left Europe for religious freedom, people will leave earth for colonies on planets, moons and space stations to be able to create their own societies free of the intolerance demonstrated here.

Humans, unfortunately to not advance and evolve at the same rate, so hoping for us to evolve together is a faint dream. Look at natives in Africa, Thousands of years behind the rest of the world.

remember when I told you American Christians were vile and frightening? Prime example right there.

And you are at the top, of course? How do you measure the distance between "behind" and yourself?

Im not intolerant,

Oh, and why are religious people always getting offended? You should feel secure in your faith. you have all the answers, and you are going to heaven. So relax.

We'll never find another world that's ready right out of the box

the only world willing to tolerate ignorance

But all those other settlements will be colonies

I'd be surprised if we make it off planet, at least in any permanent sense.

But all those other settlements will be colonies, maybe self-supporting as long as their current civilization remains stable, but doomed as soon as a collapse happens.

If humans die on Earth, sooner or later we'd die everywhere else.

when the extraterrestrial civilizations collapse

Well the goal, at least, is doing what life does best, propogation of the species

And you are at the top, of course? How do you measure the distance between "behind" and yourself?

No Im not at the top, but Im not at the bottom. Its not just evolution of the body that I speak of, and Im not pointing at any one group,

Look at natives in Africa, Thousands of years behind the rest of the world.

On space colonization: Humans currently cannot survive a trip to Mars with current technology. The levels of radiation they would be exposed to would be very unhealthy to deadly.

Except that by using Vasimr engines we can get there in 3.9 days.

Try to keep up.

On space colonization: Humans currently cannot survive a trip to Mars with current technology. The levels of radiation they would be exposed to would be very unhealthy to deadly.

Except that by using Vasimr engines we can get there in 3.9 days.

Try to keep up.

otto1923: You need to practice your math estimation skills, you would have sensed that is utterly ridiculous.

I think you meant 39 days. And no, that is not technology we currently have developed. It is still a ways off.

I doubt it. I think otto is correct in predicting an opportunity of deliberate, one might say -eugenic- selection of candidates. Which is ok with me- sometimes you gotta take one for the team, right?

marjoe...

Its really about 2 choices:

1) Population Size Control
2) Find more land.

Considering that most religions instruct their followers to "breed like rabbits" and that the remainder of humans just want to "breed like rabbits", Hawkins statement is obvious and simple.

Unless, of course, you subscribe to the expanding earth theory.

More land?
All the people in the world could fit into an area the size of TX and have ~1000 ft^2 per person.

More land?
All the people in the world could fit into an area the size of TX and have ~1000 ft^2 per person.

Land isn't just space. It is also food, water and energy.

Herd everyone into a desolate area that can't be used for agriculture and turn the rest of the earth into farms.
Silverberg had book where all the people lived in mile high buildings with only a few farming.

Otto

marjoe...

Please don't call him that. For a reason follow the link:
http://www.imdb.c...0068924/

Marjoe learned. Marjon refuses to.

Ethelred

Herd everyone into a desolate area that can't be used for agriculture and turn the rest of the earth into farms.

neither a ringworld or a dyson sphere is really feasible.

neither a ringworld or a dyson sphere is really feasible.

What a luddite!

neither a ringworld or a dyson sphere is really feasible.

What a luddite!

Above and beyond the obstacles pointed out above, if we were to discover life within the solar system outside of Earth we'd be entirely unable to ethically do it. Additionally you'd need more time than you have to build it.

" 8Therefore in one day her plagues will overtake her:
death, mourning and famine.
She will be consumed by fire,
for mighty is the Lord God who judges her.

9"When the kings of the earth who committed adultery with her and shared her luxury see the smoke of her burning, they will weep and mourn over her."

neither a ringworld or a dyson sphere is really feasible.

What a luddite!

Rather pantheistic of the Christians. Taking the Gaia story and twisting it into a story of dominance over the Earth.

What a luddite!

Reason doesn't motivate.

Rather pantheistic of the Christians. Taking the Gaia story and twisting it into a story of dominance over the Earth.

"The Christians"? You know better than that.
Thou shalt not generalize.
Because the principle of induction is controversial even in mathematics.

The posts are interesting. Some sensible, some not.
I think Hawkings suggestion is our only hope of long term survival.
But I do not believe that we are sufficiently intelligent to control our excesses and it will be this inability that will see us as the cause of our own demise before we are able to settle other worlds.
Presently the prognosis is not good.

The posts are interesting. Some sensible, some not.
I think Hawkings suggestion is our only hope of long term survival.
But I do not believe that we are sufficiently intelligent to control our excesses and it will be this inability that will see us as the cause of our own demise before we are able to settle other worlds.
Presently the prognosis is not good.

IF there is no money to BE made then the capitalits begin to take measures in order to INSURE they get their piece of the pie

price fixing shenanigans

Only if the audience is unreasonable.

It is not excluded from any form of Christianity I'm aware of, meaning it was not a generalization.

Reason is a process, not an end. Reason doesn't motivate. You'll have to come up with a better ultimate god.

Quote: using creativity and ingenuity to meet the needs of their customers
Answer: by CREATING the 'need'. IF one uses 'by hook or by crook' TO ones' 'repetoire' THEN the LURE of cash is the CARROT to the 'developement of new and inovative research' and WHILE they are doing this 'for the benefit of everyone' they use their 'hook or by crook' attitude which they have HONED in their DRIVE for the almighty dollar. Again as evidenced in the food shortages and the food being made into gas for your car. Imho.

What food shortages? All food shortages today are caused by government policies, not capacity or economics.

They were written by People for sociopolitical Purposes

Govt policies' are caused by the desperate need to control overpop in areas where obsolete religionist cultures cause unrestricted growth.

Putting people back to work to save humanity is a good way to improve current economies and to invest in future generations. I'm all for us getting started.

Definitely not excluded, but its interpretations vary greatly. Eastern Orthodoxy has always maintained that the Bible is not meant to be taken literally, for instance. Then there's the Protestant sola scriptura principle, which leads to a sort of constitutional, democratic religion.

I am absolutely Amazed that there are so many "people" that can say so much, and yet have No Understanding of Anything. Anyone who has traveled about and seen the wonders of this creation and still denies there is a "Creator" just is not thinking.
But I would challenge anyone of you to spend 1/10th the time in study of that document, as you do chasing these fantasies. Look into history and you will see that over and over again "man has said"..(i.e. the earth is flat)then years later the "Truth" comes out and it was in "The Scriptures" all the time.

Putting people back to work to save humanity is a good way to improve current economies and to invest in future generations. I'm all for us getting started.

Who is going to put people back to work? The government? What will the government work will be started to 'save humanity'?
The only way to 'save humanity' is for free people to trade freely in their own self-interest. Each trade is win-win. Each person has a self interest to save themselves, but to do so, they must produce a product or service that meets the needs and wants of another individual who is interested in saving himself. Expand that to the entire population and you have billions of people saving each other by saving themselves. Why is that so hard to understand?

Sometimes, I think Hawking's intellect clouds his common sense. If we can destroy each other on earth, what is to stop us from doing the same in space?

Herd everyone into a desolate area that can't be used for agriculture and turn the rest of the earth into farms.

How would you get to the distant farms, do work, and come back in a day (since if we were located in the Middle East there would be farms in Western Europe according to your plan)? Where would we store all of the food and water that would be required? Where would we store the transport vehicles that would be required to bring this food back to us? Where would our power come from? What about plumbing/sewage? Where would our clothes be made? If our things break where would the shops be where things are fixed? We'd need more space than just 1000ft^2/person.

Basically what you're describing is a really big city with a LOT of agriculture around it. How is that better than having many cities spread around the world with SOME agriculture around them? We wouldn't use less land, but we'd be more concentrated.

Just pointing out alternatives to those alarmists crying out for population control

Sometimes, I think Hawking's intellect clouds his common sense. If we can destroy each other on earth, what is to stop us from doing the same in space?

It isn't a matter of us destroying ourselves, it's the fact that the Universe could destroy us rather easily if we're all located on one conveniently small planet.

They were written by People for sociopolitical Purposes

So, in other words, a great deal of planning went into them and they are the product of Reason? Which is it: the Bible is evil because it was written with rationality to subdue irrational people, or because it's irrationality threatens the species' rationality? Can't have both and a functional logic at the same time, y'know.

the Bible is evil

Just pointing out alternatives to those alarmists crying out for population control

Define "population control" from your perspective.

Population control from my perspective is simple.

Education.

Just pointing out alternatives to those alarmists crying out for population control

Define "population control" from your perspective.

Population control from my perspective is simple.

Education.

Sometimes, I think Hawking's intellect clouds his common sense. If we can destroy each other on earth, what is to stop us from doing the same in space?

It isn't a matter of us destroying ourselves, it's the fact that the Universe could destroy us rather easily if we're all located on one conveniently small planet.

Yes, let's destroy the world economy with cap and trade and have no plan or resources to divert the next asteroid.

60% of Gazans are in school- this means their pop has roughly doubled in 15 years

Well- maybe it will fall on Somalia and the people there can mine it and trade the ore for food -?

How economically prosperous is Gaza?
Compare that to Muslim countries that are significantly more prosperous and look at their birth rates.

Marjon; I'm attempting to not support you, and other posters, taking over of this topic. I do not prefer to discuss economics, religion or politics in a science topic thread any more than I have to.

My only mention of the above is that I fear radical influences distract from the intended issue of this topic - that of spreading the human genome beyond this planet. The vast majority of the posts here exemplify my concerns. Another scientific discussion abused and buried under a pile of extraneous bickering.

if it's so promising and prospective to make planets in space habitable - why not just to start with Earth?

that of spreading the human genome beyond this planet.

Like Zimbabwe? A country that used to export food but is now bankrupt and starving?
Or Cuba? Where the government now 'allows' its victims to grow their own food and sell the surplus?
"The Holodomor was a (.....)"The joint statement at the United Nations in 2003 has defined the famine as the result of cruel actions and policies of the totalitarian regime that caused the deaths of millions of Ukrainians, Russians, Kazakhs and other nationalities in the USSR.[23]"
BTW, the NYT supported the actions and its reporter 'won' a Pulitzer for covering up Stalin's genocide.

That is as long as we grow up, stop fighting, stop being greedy pricks, learn money and land isn't everything, start helping each other and become a unified world...

Cali, you don't know much about commodity futures do you?
"At issue for Goldman Sachs is a major exemption it enjoys from limits on trading in certain types of agricultural commodities."
http://www.market...09-07-28
How do they get an exemption?

~SNIP~
That is as long as we grow up, stop fighting, stop being greedy pricks, learn money and land isn't everything, start helping each other and become a unified world... ~SNIP~

Personally I think the universe would be much better off without humanity. There isn't much that is redeeming about our species anymore. We have turned inward and against each other. What we need is a big, giant asteroid to put us out of our selfish misery.

Cali, you don't know much about commodity futures do you?
"At issue for Goldman Sachs is a major exemption it enjoys from limits on trading in certain types of agricultural commodities."
http://www.market...09-07-28
How do they get an exemption?

mongo-

I said: "read ALL about it." Then, you can probably answer your own question, as well as discover how your "freemarketeers" starved millions and millions.

Every time Hawking speaks he proves that his genius is limited. His comments are coming straight from the late night radio show Coast to Coast.

Cali, you don't know much about commodity futures do you?
"At issue for Goldman Sachs is a major exemption it enjoys from limits on trading in certain types of agricultural commodities."
http://www.market...09-07-28
How do they get an exemption?

mongo-

I said: "read ALL about it." Then, you can probably answer your own question, as well as discover how your "freemarketeers" starved millions and millions.

Provide a link that can be read.

Like many religionists they use god to excuse the fact that they cant or wont live within their means.

I am absolutely Amazed that there are so many "people

seen the wonders of this creation and still denies there is a "Creator" just is not thinking

But I would challenge anyone of you to spend 1/10th the time in study of that document, as you do chasing these fantasies

If that had ever been a viable attitude then America would never have been settled.

It's when each of those people wants, or is made to crave a widescreen TV, an iPhone, bottled water, or a car that things get out of control. If only there was a way to convince the masses to seek something other than material wealth...

Look into history and you will see that over and over again "man has said"..(i.e. the earth is flat)then years later the "Truth" comes out and it was in "The Scriptures"

You can run to the stars if you like, but if you think you are going to outrun God, you are wasting your time.

I don't know of any major religion that explicitly solicits procreation and bans contraception.

Come on, it's a well known fact that poverty and lack of education is what causes people to shag like there's no tomorrow.

The wealthy ones are not very credible when preaching abstinence to the poor. Neither are they wise. Because their preachings sound like they think the poor are stupid.

The wealthy ones are not very credible when preaching abstinence to the poor. Neither are they wise. Because their preachings sound like they think the poor are stupid.

They left for some reason of the pursuit of freedom.

'some reason'?
It is called religious freedom.

The differentiation is not between rich or poor it is between those who want the power to control others.

if you want to reduce population growth, increase individual prosperity.

'some reason'?
It is called religious freedom.

In many cases that is false. They often came to the New World to have their own religious colony. Where you HAD to be one of them. It was their way or the highway and there weren't any highways.

Ethelred

i tried to be non specific. But the point is, they left and found a new place to live, and in this place they moved out the "indigenous species". So imagine that.

if you want to reduce population growth, increase individual prosperity.

Agree.
My father used to say this, Sex and babys is the favourite passtime of the economicaly weak. It's free. And they can't afford to spend much for other entertainment.

if you want to reduce population growth, increase individual prosperity.

Agree.
My father used to say this, Sex and babys is the favourite passtime of the economicaly weak. It's free. And they can't afford to spend much for other entertainment.

It depends. Bin Ladens father, a very wealthy man, married 22 times and fathered at least 54 children. Bin laden has only four wives and 19 children, but hes been a little harried lately.

Religions such as this proclaim children as gifts from, and to, god. They are lifes greatest reward, which indeed they are.

It was those Puritans who started Harvard,

created a robust economy

and produced men like Ben Franklin

Sam Adams and John Adams

They are also the ancestors of the modern nanny state

What you condemn the Puritans

state interference in everyone's life

The wealthy ones are not very credible when preaching abstinence to the poor. Neither are they wise. Because their preachings sound like they think the poor are stupid.

The only 'rich' who are doing that are the democrats like Pelosi, Kerry and Obama.
The entrepreneurial rich, like Rush Limbaugh, are trying to help anyone else who wants to, get rich, too. They know the 'pie' is not fixed and if they can do it, so can anyone else.
The differentiation is not between rich or poor it is between those who want the power to control others.

The only 'rich' who are doing that are the democrats like Pelosi, Kerry and Obama.
The entrepreneurial rich, like Rush Limbaugh, are trying to help anyone else who wants to, get rich, too. They know the 'pie' is not fixed and if they can do it, so can anyone else.
The differentiation is not between rich or poor it is between those who want the power to control others.

If AMD made a better product at a lower cost they would prevail.
That is called competition.
The real power is the consumer, not the state.

ntel was using unfair practices, namely strong-arming board and PC makers into only using Intel.

It is amazing that even great minds and scientist believe that the time is running out for this world in large part because mankind is raping the world of its natural resources at an alarming rate. Christians attribute this primarily to greed and selfishness. Do you think God will sit idly by while man destroys His good creation and not do anything about it? Please visit my website at http://www.revela...ruth.org Rev. Daniel W. Blair author of Final Warning

What a ridiculous dividing line. Where do you think the democrats you dislike and the republicans you do like make their money?

The exact same place. Corporate America.

We've tried Laissez-faire; it produced child labor and lifelong servitude to employer-run communities with zero oversight,

ntel was using unfair practices, namely strong-arming board and PC makers into only using Intel.

Obviously customers did not care and could not tell the difference.
That seems to be a marketing problem with AMD.
Beta tapes were better quality than VHS, but VHS had better marketing skills. Same with Gates and MS.
If AMD made a better product the public demanded, no strong arm tactics would matter. The public would demand AMD CPUs and Dell would tell Intel to piss off.

Do you really think there is a significant difference between donkeys and elephants and how many of them want to "control others?" You are beyond delusional. You are just a ditto head that made up his mind a long time ago and has closed off any competing ideas that contradict your worldview.

Sometimes the technology dictates that the only possibilities don't give the people a reason to differentiate. There was and is no way to make a practically better product. If they can fairly corner the market, fine by me. But if they have to use unethical practices, you are fine with that. Nice ethical framework you've got there. That's pretty convenient for you to separate religious ethics from economic theory.

Where is the fault is such a world view?

If a distributor wants to sell certain products, say Maytag, they can't discount that product without permission. Is that unethical if both parties agree to the contract?
And you admit AMD has no technical advantage? Then their problem is marketing.

Your statement that you don't care about why they are controlling is 100% dishonest and you know it.

Rules that even in your anarchist fairy-tale land would need to avoid destructive monopolies that would stifle competition.

Your statement that you don't care about why they are controlling is 100% dishonest and you know it.

Why must anyone pick and choose their master?

Your statement that you don't care about why they are controlling is 100% dishonest and you know it.

Why must anyone pick and choose their master?

You must know. You do it in every other post.

So funny that Marjon doesn't think unfair business practices are a form of theft or infringment upon liberty.

i tried to be non specific.(...) they moved out the "indigenous species". So imagine that.

The indigenous are still there and have opened casinos.

It is amazing that even great minds and scientist believe that the time is running out for this world in large part because mankind is raping the world of its natural resources at an alarming rate. Christians attribute this primarily to greed and selfishness. Do you think God will sit idly by while man destroys His good creation and not do anything about it? Please visit my website at http://www.revela...ruth.org Rev. Daniel W. Blair author of Final Warning

What is wrong with a world view that there are those who want to control me and those who do not (too few of those and most on this board lust for such control).
It doesn't matter if the motivation is wealth or 'to save humanity', the desire for power is the same. Motivations don't matter much to me.
I have no desire for force anyone to pay for my existence nor do I want to take anyone's money by theft or fraud. I respect your property if you respect mine.
Where is the fault is such a world view?

Hey, Rev,

Which "god" are you talking about?

How about YOU do THIS: Get on the horn to all your "god(s)", and tell him to come and fetch all his little children, lickety-split, because they don't play nice. I'm sure they will be as pleased as punch to be up in Heaven, and all.

The rest of us would certainly appreciate it.

Yours, very truly,

Caliban

Firstly, mongo, you fucktard -that isn't the personal worldview that you've expounded for everyone's edification here for so long, and ad nauseam.

Oversimplifying the mangyworld's precepts to make them appear innocuous just doesn't cut it.

Mangy says that he has no desire to control anyone, and yet he would have everyone exist in "Freemarketonia"- but you had better be a straight, xian, prolife, state hatin', bootstrappin', antiregulationist, OR ELSE.

It comes as no surprise that you would think that operating casinos on a reservation that is hardly fit for any other purpose in any way even begins to compensate for the loss of their Culture, lands, language, and an ancient, balanced way of life was somehow just compensation for that unimaginable loss, and, in fact "MADE IT ALL BETTER".

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Cali wants to to use the majority mob to control business,

change the definition of marriage,

ban religion

nd kill babies.

The people of the state VOTED to deny gays the right to marry.

Its our state and if we decide that gays can marry what the hell is your problem with that.

The state denies the 'right' for anyone under a certain age to marry

A constitutional amendment defining marriage is between one man and one woman does not deny any homosexual the 'right' to marry

The majority decided but a single judge voided the will of the people

Choosing such a path, there is now no legal, logical objection for courts to force the state to recognize any 'marriage', including polygamy

Mormons and Muslims have a better, constitutional argument as a ban on polygamy violates their religious rights

So,atheists, be prepared to be hung by your own petard as polygamy is legalized and Mormons and Muslims out breed the athesits, legally

So where is your Libertarianism on this?

s OK for Christians to tell others how to live their lives but not OK for non-Christians to ask to be left alone.

Many here propose just that.

Smoking tobacco in Cali-fornia is evil, but not marijuana?

Smoking sisn't ilegal.

This libertarian's POV is the state should not grant any privilege to marriage and should not recognize marriage at all

Christians can preach all they want

The state makes laws telling us how to live and we have NO choice but to listen.

One theme of the tea parties is "government, leave us alone".

With a special exemption for religion to NOT leave us alone.

it is above all else an alliance to raise children. Every culture has it.

Christians, with no legal authority, can't express their opinions

but its ok for the government to force people to live the way a minority dictates?

Most California cities allow landlords to regulate smoking at will.

Talk about hypocrisy!

So what are you doing? Are you telling that you are NOT expressing your opinion?

Religion cannot force you to do anything

If a religion makes you feel guilty, that is your problem.

How do homosexual couples create children within the marriage?

What does this mean except that you want to ban religious speech?

How do Rush and Hannity and the ilk brainwash so many people? They're not all crazy or stupid. Is it simply a combo of mental laziness, fear of being different, confirmation bias, and just cowardly not challenging themselves?

Is it just me, or are their messages getting more dangerous? One thing is, they seem to want to subvert the value of a well rounded education, just so they can control politics. WTF?

How do homosexual couples create children within the marriage?

How do Rush and Hannity and the ilk brainwash so many people? They're not all crazy or stupid. Is it simply a combo of mental laziness, fear of being different, confirmation bias, and just cowardly not challenging themselves?
I mean, they clearly rely on straw men, other fallacies, and outright lies that they know their base won't even want to check on. Is it just that their listeners don't want to and/or aren't capable of seeing these facts? There must be more, right?
Is it just me, or are their messages getting more dangerous? One thing is, they seem to want to subvert the value of a well rounded education, just so they can control politics. WTF?

Which is why we must never let them have any control. Unbiased education is vital to everyone, all the time.

Is it just me, or are their messages getting more dangerous?

How do homosexual couples create children within the marriage?

There's no need for one to create children if one wants to raise children.
Don't forget that in the US Apache children forcefully have been separated from their biological parents and then raised by whites.

Ethel asserted the state should support marriage 'for the children'. A man and a woman are needed to create a child. Data supports that a man and a woman, together, are the best parental choice.

Promotion of homosexual marriage is not in the best interest of the children, it is in the best interest of the homosexuals and the state that desires the dilution of a traditional family.
Research in Norway has confirmed this.

Is it just me, or are their messages getting more dangerous? One thing is, they seem to want to subvert the value of a well rounded education, just so they can control politics. WTF?

it's to distract Americans - particularly white Americans in economic distress - from the profoundly serious issues America faces as a nation. The secondary goal is to continue a 30-year goal of shifting the nation's dollars to the already gluttonous wealthy, while inciting emotions of victimhood and hate toward the government in the very people the corporate masters of the GOP are pick pocketing.
...
Further moving America backward into a third world nation where the rich sit in luxury in gated communities and armed enclaves.

How do homosexual couples create children within the marriage?

There's no need for one to create children if one wants to raise children.
Don't forget that in the US Apache children forcefully have been separated from their biological parents and then raised by whites.

Ethel asserted the state should support marriage 'for the children'. A man and a woman are needed to create a child. Data supports that a man and a woman, together, are the best parental choice.
Promotion of homosexual marriage is not in the best interest of the children, it is in the best interest of the homosexuals and the state that desires the dilution of a traditional family.
Research in Norway has confirmed this.

Yeah Ray Kurzweil does have some pretty interesting theories. I've read all his books except for the health ones haha.

I think if we spread into space it's only a matter of time before the colony will want to fight with the home planet, and then we would have interplanetary war, possibly capable of destroying both worlds.

We need to work on ourselves, because no matter where we are, we will fight and kill each other.

That's a shame.

How do Rush and Hannity and the ilk brainwash so many people? They're not all crazy or stupid. Is it simply a combo of mental laziness, fear of being different, confirmation bias, and just cowardly not challenging themselves?

I mean, they clearly rely on straw men, other fallacies, and outright lies that they know their base won't even want to check on. Is it just that their listeners don't want to and/or aren't capable of seeing these facts? There must be more, right?

Is it just me, or are their messages getting more dangerous? One thing is, they seem to want to subvert the value of a well rounded education, just so they can control politics. WTF?

"Yep. Essentially, it's no different than European colonialism. "

Ridiculous. Colonialism, whether European, Africa, Chinese, Arab, or any sort, involves taking over someones else's land, not setting down on an uninhabited planet(s). There are many engineering issues involved here, but no moral ones. We have a right to explore the universe and try to preserve our species.
Gravity and acceleration are equivalent, so that problem has been solved.

It is always interesting to note that the 6,000+ year old cuneiform tablets found all over Ancient Persia..ie IRAQ

Colonialism, whether European, Africa, Chinese, Arab, or any sort, involves taking over someones else's land, not setting down on an uninhabited planet(s). There are many engineering issues involved here, but no moral ones.

I'm just missing elementary logic in Mr. Hawking's recommendation: if it's so promising and prospective to make planets in space habitable - why not just to start with Earth?

So says the man who hasn't left his wheelchair in 15 20 years or more.

The irony is killing me.

Unfortunately, I don't see how we will socially evolve fast enough to avoid tribal warfare from non-Earth, human, societies. Maybe.......maybe, knowledge of life on distant solar systems will give enough of us enough perspective to cast away our superfluous religions and petty differences to practically come together. I doubt that will happen and I doubt it would even be enough considering the amount of selfish, greedy brainwashing that continues at every level of society at every level of economic status. Pessimistic views, yes; please argue against them.

How do Rush and Hannity and the ilk brainwash so many people?

So says the man who hasn't left his wheelchair in 15 20 years or more.

The irony is killing me.

Physically disabled people like Hawkings and those with no legs would be much better suited to a life in 0 G.

People that are free to trade with each other have no need for war. War only benefits those in power.

People that are free to trade with each other have no need for war. War only benefits those in power.
Why do so many here support such state power instead of free markets?

Thats not true. That only puts monopolists in power, who have a long history of using guns to gain economic advantage.

3rd world countries who pay their "employees" a dime an hour to make something they will sell for hundreds and even thousands of dollars.

Sadly the more money you have, the more exploitation you can do.

Thats not true. That only puts monopolists in power, who have a long history of using guns to gain economic advantage.

Monopolists cannot exist without the force of the state.

Physically disabled people like Hawkings and those with no legs would be much better suited to a life in 0 G.

People that are free to trade with each other have no need for war. War only benefits those in power.

Why do so many here support such state power instead of free markets?

Monopolists cannot exist without the force of the state.

How do they keep an audience in a free radio market when the socialists like Air America are bankrupt?

Happily, the money you have, the more investment one can do (Paul Allen, Branson, Gates, ......)
and the more economic prosperity can be brought to a poor region.

Why should they? No chance for profit.

Radio is one of the most heavily regulated markets around. Conservatives are backed by corporate power.

I'd rather have state power, which is controllable by law and voters as opposed to corporate power which is controlled by no one.

Investing IS the only way for profit.
High risk, high reward.
People like Branson and Allan want to personally go into space and they want to create and economical means for others to follow, and for a time will corner the market.

How else can those 'employees' make a dime if that company was not there?
Why are those countries in that condition in the first place?

Investing IS the only way for profit.
High risk, high reward.
People like Branson and Allan want to personally go into space and they want to create and economical means for others to follow, and for a time will corner the market.

Building spas in space for rich people is not the same as feeding useless eaters, to use the words of your entrepreneurs...unless you mean exploiting them and taking their resources ala cecil rhodes?

Note that China is now having to pay higher wages and even they are starting to off-shore their manufacturing.
That is the way economic growth occurs.
The Germans opened factories in the USA.
People in PI and India welcome the call center jobs that pay above average salaries.

Sadly the more money you have, the more exploitation you can do.

Happily, the money you have, the more investment one can do (Paul Allen, Branson, Gates, ......)
and the more economic prosperity can be brought to a poor region.

These people "OFTEN" have very stable lives before industrialization and modernization, with plenty of food and shelter to go around.

Because it is cheep labor you do not have to pay benefits or give raises for seniority or excellent worker. Again the overall point is we often bring misery before we make the lives of these people better. Plus it takes jobs away from the countries we sell to, there are many "poor" people in America that could use a job (such as Detroit), but they are too expensive by the companies standards.

If they had such stable lives, why don't they want to return to such 'stability'? Few people want to return to the 'stability' battling nature for survival.
Why don't you 'go native' and live in such stability with no computer, electricity, running water, toilet, vaccines, technology,.....?

To a real entrepreneur, there are no 'useless eaters', everyone is a customer, a supplier, or both.

After all, you atheists are much smarter and know what is best for everyone.

To a real entrepreneur, there are no 'useless eaters', everyone is a customer, a supplier, or both.

What are you going to sell these people- computers and snickers bars?http://www.raffae...ine.html

After all, you atheists are much smarter and know what is best for everyone.

Damn right.

you would know that "our" way is NOT always the best way.

you would know that "our" way is NOT always the best way.

What is the 'best way'?
I prefer to leave that up to the individual, not elite control freaks like Otto, SH or A'One.

I'm advocating for the rights of the developing country with the raw resources the company is exploiting,

still too many companies are doing these practices all for the benefit of greed and power.

This is why limited government and free markets are so important.
These people are starving because their governments want them to die and the govoernments steal the charity food and sell it.
That's what you want is it not Otto? Get rid of all those useless eaters and save the planet?

It is the governments of these countries that allow this to happen. Why blame the company?
Address the greed and power of government and you may see some progress. Companies have only the power they can buy from a government.
Every socialist blames greedy companies and if only the right, noble people could be found to run the government and stop those greedy companies the world would be utopia.
Until socialist fellow travelers recognize that government is power and the problem, blaming capitalism only strengthens socialism and reduces liberty and prosperity.

What is the 'best way'?
I prefer to leave that up to the individual, not elite control freaks like Otto, SH or A'One.

What is the 'best way'?
I prefer to leave that up to the individual, not elite control freaks like Otto, SH or A'One.

What is the 'best way'?
I prefer to leave that up to the individual, not elite control freaks like Otto, SH or A'One.

That's the great thing about us, we don't want to control anything. We don't want to tell you who to worship, we don't want to tell you how to raise your kids, we don't want to tell you what to do with your money. We just want you to follow the same rules that the rest of us do, no exceptions, and no discrimination.

It takes two to tango. Are you telling me that because these governments "allow" these acts to happen, then it is okay for that company to practice them?

Another article discusses how trusting people make better lie detectors.
I suggest people who want to be controlled by the government are afraid they can't control themselves.

I think people like you attack companies because it is low hanging fruit and you trust government power over the power of individuals. I think deep down, you don't trust individuals because you don't trust yourself.
...
I suggest people who want to be controlled by the government are afraid they can't control themselves.

Ethel asserted the state should support marriage 'for the children'.

What is behind ALL of these problems, Big corporations looking to make money, every bloody one of them...

How do they keep an audience in a free radio market when the socialists like Air America are bankrupt?

If it is not a privilege, then why involve the state?

You agree with me that the state should not be in the business of granting privilege to marriage?

Mormons (who are Christian, someone implied they were not)

the government either accepts all definitions and does not discriminate, OR, the state must define marriage.

So how will more corrupt government fix anything?

Do you trust a lion to be a lion?

Capitalism trusts people to act in their self interest

You have heard Adam Smith's quote?

The key to taming government is to follow the Constitution and trust government to act in its interest.

Voters must take responsibility and vote the bastards out

Controlling a corporation is easy, don't buy their stuff

Ahem...
I think we are drifting faraway from the main subject...

OK. Within fifty years we will have gravity engines and be able to find another habitual place to live. That will most likely happen before we destroy ourselves.

So how will more corrupt government fix anything?
... Capitalism trusts people to act in their self interest.

You have heard Adam Smith's quote?
The key to taming government is to follow the Constitution and trust government to act in its interest. Voters must take responsibility and vote the bastards out. Controlling a corporation is easy, don't buy their stuff and if the government is limited in power, the government can't force us to buy their stuff.

the government is limited in power, the government can't force us to buy their stuff.

What was the definition of insanity?

Doing the same thing (promoting more government) and expecting different results?

OK. Within fifty years we will have gravity engines and be able to find another habitual place to live. That will most likely happen before we destroy ourselves.

You think so?
Whatever major technology we have today was invented 50 years ago. We have only managed to improvise on the original.
What makes you think we will make a massive technological breakthrough in the next 50 years.
With govenments having handful of other problems, I think spending on technology will actually subside.

I am fine with the idea of allowing multiple spouses.

Mormons are not really Christians. They are followes of the words of a liar,

Joseph Smith.

They do sometimes follow the words of Jesus except where they would conflict with Joseph Smith and other Latter Day Saints. They also think they will be given a planet to be a god of. Which I don't think is something that Jesus ever said.

I am fine with the idea of allowing multiple spouses.

Only local govenments have ever forced people to buy things in this country.

Doesn't work when they act as Smith says they will and conspire against the buyers and form monopolies.

As with SH, I challenge you to give me a monopoly that does not exist without the backing of the state preventing competition.

What rules are those, mob rules?

Islam and Mormones are not. They don't give women the right to have multiple spouses.

Islam and Mormones are not. They don't give women the right to have multiple spouses.

I know that. Allowing multiple spouses fits their needs in any case. Of course THEY might insist that the law not include women but in California that would be illegal. In any case there aren't enough straight men to go around already so women aren't going to have much opportunity to take advantage of equality under that hypothetical law.

The person followed makes the difference

like having a pope

hating gays(most christians)

a pit of everlasting fire (the concept of hell)

Fun fact, original christianity once believed that no follower of Jesus should have intercourse

Ever hear of OPEC. They try to do that and have not succeeded.

none will ever succeed as long as competition is free to compete.

Cable companies were granted monopolies and abused that power.

Conspiracies do not last long in free markets, unless they conspire to produce the best product at the lowest cost.

Jesus might have been sincere. There is no such possibility with Joseph Smith

It isn't a belief, it's an organization. Most groups have those sort of things. Even when there aren't many people in the group.

I remember pointing out that Hell was often used to translate the word Gehenna, which is a trash dump.

I don't think that is a fact. I think that was just the opinion of Paul.

If you want to talk to someone who does not believe in Christianity, talk to a Pope.

Ah but the Bible states in several places that religion is a personal thing and should NOT be performed in public

The concept of hell is absent from early Christian texts.

Deu 32:22 For a fire is kindled in mine anger, and shall burn unto the lowest hell, and shall consume the earth with her increase, and set on fire the foundations of the mountains.

That is ridiculous. The Pope has never claimed to be invulnerable. You do know that the last was shot don't you.

It also says the opposite. It frequently contradicts itself. Which allows believers to pick and choose.

The last one has hell being thrown into the lake of fire. Does that make Hell iterative?

Ever hear of Standard Oil.

Maybe I know something you do not, but I for sure have a more positive outlook for the future when people work together to accomplish a common goal.

It was not a monopoly and they reduced the cost of kerosene and improved its quality to their customers.

You have still not given any examples of a free market monopoly.

Whatever you might know, or your approach is, or whatever you might invent you'll not get past Moon or at the most Mars with all those equipment and men needed for colonising, within the next 50 years.

It was not a monopoly and they reduced the cost of kerosene and improved its quality to their customers

You have still not given any examples of a free market monopoly

"Without De Beers to control the market, the growing flood of diamonds will kill prices.

Monopolies cannot survive market forces without government protection

http://www.forbes...dex.html

DeBeers has generated so much power from it's "mining" monopolies that it can force the hand of even more small African nations to grant it yet more "mining" monopolies. Of course, people like you choose to see this as government assistance, when the reality is the governments are being extorted.

Do you drink the swill you are peddling?

It is an arrangement among producers to limit the number of diamonds that reach the market. To achieve this goal, it had been until this year a buyer of last resort, and contracts with other producers to buy up their production, which it then warehouses in its vault.

http://www.thefre...ndustry/
"The clearest definition of monopoly is one seller, with the law prohibiting competitors from entering the market. "
http://www.fff.or...592c.asp

That's a lot of suits for something you claim doesn't exist.

Amazing the way you tell yourself lies and so expect others to be as gullible.

Maybe I know something you do not, but I for sure have a more positive outlook for the future when people work together to accomplish a common goal.

Whatever you might know, or your approach is, or whatever you might invent you'll not get past Moon or at the most Mars with all those equipment and men needed for colonising, within the next 50 years.

DeBeers was not a monopoly:
http://www.thedai...ket.html

http://www.thefre...ndustry/
"The clearest definition of monopoly is one seller, with the law prohibiting competitors from entering the market. "
http://www.fff.or...592c.asp

Links from people that lie. How nice. How expected.

Standard Oil was a monopoly. The Supreme Court made that decision. A bunch of RightWingNuts that you read to exclude reality won't change that.

And that bogus definition is beyond ludicrous.

Ethelred

Again a free market will still "allow" child labor, wage slavery, and sweet shops for corporations trying to cut their costs.

"Private factory owners could not forcibly subjugate "free labour" children; they could not compel them to work in conditions their parents found unacceptable. "

"The situation, however, was much different for "parish apprentice" children, and close examination reveals that it was these children on whom the critics were focusing when they spoke of the "evils" of capitalism's Industrial Revolution. These youngsters, it turns out, were under the direct authority and supervision not of their parents in a free labor market, but of government officials. "
http://www.mackinac.org/3879

"The situation, however, was much different for "parish apprentice" children, and close examination reveals that it was these children on whom the critics were focusing when they spoke of the "evils" of capitalism's Industrial Revolution. These youngsters, it turns out, were under the direct authority and supervision not of their parents in a free labor market, but of government officials. "

Monopolies cannot survive market forces without government protection.

Well thats sometimes a good thing isnt it? For instance if the price of diamonds were to crash, the economies of those developing countries which could not increase production or sell in a flooded market could also crash, leading to regional instability and worse.

Boy I sure do like space!

That is an ignorant statement by you. How do you know what I know and do not know?
I can understand why you have a negative viewpoint on gravity engines. Governments have been keeping all of that information secret since the 1950s shortly after the Roswell, New Mexico accident.
The US government was at first cooperative with the public about UFOs until they realized all the problems that UFO technology will create.
Yes, gravity engines will be out in the open by 2060 or sooner.
WikiPedia talks about artificial intelligence, robotics, immortality, etc. and most scientists agree that those

I live in a Third World country.

The ground realities here are far different from what you have in America. Our planned man to moon mission is still 10 years away (as per schedule, but delay is the name of the game here).

What do you mean when you say surviving the next 50 years is a far fetched dream?

I'm inclined to think that you are not what you pretend to be. That you are cheating in order to denounce China. The country with the most successful ecomomy of this planet in the past three decades.

The governance is gone to the dogs, with corrupt and illiterate ploiticians ruling.

So, Ethelred, you getting anywhere at all with the Queen Mother of trolls here?

Just another example of corporations using the gov't to 'compete'

What monopoly?

I know you believe government can do no wrong

That's why California is bankrupt and must pay its bills with IOUs?

Also the original cause of the State's economic problems was a bunch of thieves in a poorly regulated business. Enron. They made billions by rigging a power shortage in California.

A freak nuclear accident could very well wipe us out of the world map

So if you have to engage in mendacious and duplicitous behavior why don't do yourself a favor and rejoin reality?

That was 10 years ago

It was CA regulators

I have referenced the report, many times. It was NOT a free market.

California has the government it deserves

In California,

It is interesting that Popper was motivated to his falsification philosophy by Marxists who kept changing the rules when their predictions failed.

We have shown that monopolies exist and can and have existed without governments creating them. And your response has been to lie, stonewall, use bogus irrelevant claims and of course EVADE.

So if you have to engage in mendacious and duplicitous behavior why don't do yourself a favor and rejoin reality?

We have shown that monopolies exist and can and have existed without governments creating them. And your response has been to lie, stonewall, use bogus irrelevant claims and of course EVADE.

So if you have to engage in mendacious and duplicitous behavior why don't do yourself a favor and rejoin reality?

We have shown that monopolies exist and can and have existed without governments creating them. And your response has been to lie, stonewall, use bogus irrelevant claims and of course EVADE.

So if you have to engage in mendacious and duplicitous behavior why don't do yourself a favor and rejoin reality?

Based upon the definition of an efficiency monopoly, such monopolies can be created in a free market.
What is wrong with an efficiency monopoly?
I will note also that Popper did not support Marxism, but many here who preach Popper support Marxism. How rational is that?

More evasion.

How do you sleep at night with the knowledge of such obvious and monumental bias that completely subverts all rationality?

To borrow a quote from one of my favorite scifi movies: "Are you mentally divergent, friend?"

If you can guess the movie without google or IMDB, you get a 1 hour pass from me thinking you have an IQ of 80 or lower.

More evasion.

How do you sleep at night with the knowledge of such obvious and monumental bias that completely subverts all rationality?

To borrow a quote from one of my favorite scifi movies: "Are you mentally divergent, friend?"

If you can guess the movie without google or IMDB, you get a 1 hour pass from me thinking you have an IQ of 80 or lower.

Again, more insults and no enlightenment.

You argued that a monopoly can't exist without govt.

"the DeBeers diamond
syndicate are examples of �near� monopolies."
http://facstaff.g...er22.pdf
DeBeers, through market forces, has abandoned its efforts to control the diamond market.
This leaves the only monopolies that can be perpetuated regardless of market forces are those supported by the government.

"the DeBeers diamond
syndicate are examples of �near� monopolies."
http://facstaff.g...er22.pdf
DeBeers, through market forces, has abandoned its efforts to control the diamond market.
This leaves the only monopolies that can be perpetuated regardless of market forces are those supported by the government.

No... again DeBeers was a Monopoly, every single place I look up information on them states "WAS a Monopoly" stressing the was part, including themselves. This is one you cannot argue... period.

DeBeers was a Monopoly/syndicate that existed outside any government, and practiced Monopolistic behaviors such as driving out competition, restricting access from others, and exaggerating the value of their products.

And free markets ended that 'monopoly' as predicted.

'm inclined to think that you are not what you pretend to be. That you are cheating in order to denounce China. The country with the most successful ecomomy of this planet in the past three decades.

Ha..Ha..Ha..
I am an ordinary citizen. Why do you think China will take my word for it?

And free markets ended that 'monopoly' as predicted.

Only because they withheld diamonds from the US and other countries during World War II. It still existed as a monopoly, Yes I said it, with out government support and on a world wide scale. And it is still under suspicion today as to whether it is still a monopoly just more cleverly hidden, dispersed among organizations such as the World Diamond Congress.

What? You AGREE?
Free markets DO limit monopoly power.

Solar electric and wind turbines would be a solution. Just think all of the people it would employ?

Solar electric and wind turbines would be a solution. Just think all of the people it would employ?

Sure, It would provide employment to a million people. But if the oil runs dry a billion will come to the streets.
Most of the third world govt's are so incompetent, I presume in the next 20 years or so, when the problems compound all around, they might collapse leading to total anarchy in these parts.

Blood diamonds were also used to finance other pro-western insurgencies and govts which fostered conflict and deprivation as ways of waging war against the obsolete, ruinous ancient cultures which would have destroyed their ecologies had they been left to fester.

Blood diamonds were also used to finance other pro-western insurgencies and govts which fostered conflict and deprivation as ways of waging war against the obsolete, ruinous ancient cultures which would have destroyed their ecologies had they been left to fester.

My friend and former co-worker Zachary from Kenia (who btw is fluent in five languages) used to explain that most of the political trouble in Africa roots in 500 years of continuous colonization and exploitation.

That becomes a real problem when a country has nuclear weapons!

The Only Way a freak nuclear accident could occur is if it was Planned to occur.

The governance is gone to the dogs, with corrupt and illiterate ploiticians ruling.

Where is that NOT a problem? You just described most US politicians and judges.

Politicians everywhere are the same. Do you think they are a different species other than Homo Sapiens?
Then, extinction of this species might give humans a chance to survive.

The Only Way a freak nuclear accident could occur is if it was Planned to occur.

And what would be the motive behind such a plan?

We now know the church otto worships in.

We now know the church otto worships in.

Yah, its called the Church of Undeniable Reality. Ever been there? (No)

Have people in India ever heard of birth control?

Recommending genocide of a group due to their vocation is, well, telling that you don't understand the basis of the problem.

Apart from population you can't blame us much for anything else. We have been very frugal consumers of food, energy and oil. Our per capita carbon footprint is one of the lowest in the world. India has a huge middle class which still adores the Gandhian value 'Simple living, High thinking.'

Apart from population you can't blame us much for anything else. We have been very frugal consumers of food, energy and oil. Our per capita carbon footprint is one of the lowest in the world. India has a huge middle class which still adores the Gandhian value 'Simple living, High thinking.'

Yes but your high thinkers don't live so simply. THis is evidenced by the carbon foot print associated with the various classes. The top 1% of India use 80% of the fuel resources. Then again, I'm in America, forget I said anything.

Yes but your high thinkers don't live so simply. THis is evidenced by the carbon foot print associated with the various classes. The top 1% of India use 80% of the fuel resources. Then again, I'm in America, forget I said anything.

Exactly. Since you are only 4% of the world populace, what is your foot print size?

My personal foot print is very low but those of my contemporaries... not so much.

My personal foot print is very low but those of my contemporaries... not so much.

How about the support structure you use to live?
Your travel, your house, your food, ....?

My personal foot print is very low but those of my contemporaries... not so much.

How about the support structure you use to live?
Your travel, your house, your food, ....?

All accounted for within my estimates. It wouldn't exactly be accurate if I was only going off of my personal existence, now would it? It's not exactly like you can breathe less to save the planet.

It's not exactly like you can breathe less to save the planet.

That is what the EPA wants us to do.

It's not exactly like you can breathe less to save the planet.

That is what the EPA wants us to do.

Mongo, this might be the most ridiculous thing I have ever seen in print. You purpose here, and maybe in life, is counter productive, even from your perspective.

Why wouldn't our 'friendly' govt force us all to start using rebreathers to scrub the CO2?

Because not every conspiracy theory that relies on slippery slope fallacies to cause irrational fear is worth considering past an initial thought. Why do you get suckered into it? Do you not see how it affects the next thing you buy into? If any of these crazy ideas "might" be true, then they all could be. The ability to just make shit up is independent from truth. Do you really not care about truth?

Why wouldn't our 'friendly' govt force us all to start using rebreathers to scrub the CO2?

Why wouldn't our 'friendly' govt force us all to start using rebreathers to scrub the CO2?

Because not every conspiracy theory that relies on slippery slope fallacies to cause irrational fear is worth considering past an initial thought. Why do you get suckered into it? Do you not see how it affects the next thing you buy into? If any of these crazy ideas "might" be true, then they all could be. The ability to just make shit up is independent from truth. Do you really not care about truth?

Just a side note Marjon.

Why wouldn't our 'friendly' govt force us all to start using rebreathers to scrub the CO2?

We may have to start wearing rebreathers jsut to go outside if people who hold similar views, and a total ignorance of science (like you) get their way.

Just a side note Marjon.

Why wouldn't our 'friendly' govt force us all to start using rebreathers to scrub the CO2?

We may have to start wearing rebreathers jsut to go outside if people who hold similar views, and a total ignorance of science (like you) get their way.

But you trust the govt to be in charge of the science?

That's the great thing about science, there's no way to control independent discovery. One would think that you'd enjoy science based on your free market idealism.

Which is one reason why I am wary of scientific consensus.

Which is one reason why I am wary of scientific consensus.

There's no such thing. If you're trying to rope the AGCC theoretics into this recognize that the "consensus" spoken of is not a "scientific consensus" and the corrupt media and body politic presented it, but as a consensus of opinion on the validity of the theory when interviewing scientists.

The AGCC theory has been well vetted and scinetifically supported as far back as the 1950's. You're arguing against ignorant talking heads on your TV. Turn it off and read a book from time to time.

The AGCC theory has been well vetted and scinetifically supported as far back as the 1950's.

My personal foot print is very low but those of my contemporaries... not so much.